Topping From the Bottom
I used to go round and round with this. What it is, what it isn’t, do I do it, do I CARE if I do it, is it my job to stop it, is it HIS job to stop it…
Blah blah blah.
This is one of those terms that has no absolute clear meaning. Ask ten different people, get ten different answers. For some, it’s as strict as the sub mentioning something they like. For others, it has to include manipulation, among other nefarious practices.
I used to be so paranoid about doing this that I would refuse to suggest anything. Refuse to ask for anything. Refuse to give him feedback; wouldn’t tell him how it felt, if I liked it/didn’t like it. Nothing. Nada.
That was seriously exhausting. For me. For him. The worry of skating dangerously close to topping from the bottom is less stressful than trying so hard NOT to, you know what I mean?
He especially was frustrated with it/me. By trying not to top from the bottom, which is some other person’s preference for bdsm, I was ignoring HIS preference by not giving him the information he wanted.
It’d go something like this:
Him: I want you to tell me when you’re horny.
Me: No. Can’t.
Him: Why?
Me: That’s topping from the bottom. It’s against BDSM law. Can’t do it.
Him: *blinkblinkblink* Where the fuck do you GET this shit?
Or:
Him, after playing and in that post-scene high: So, what did you think of that?
Me: Good.
Him: Yeahbut, what did you THINK? Too hard? Too fast? Not enough? WHAT?
Me: Good. It was good.
Him: ARGH!!
Me, not topping from the bottom: *blink*
Or:
Him: Hey cunt, wanna get beat?
Me, careful to keep my face blank: If you wish, Master.
Him: I know that, cunt, but I’m asking for your input.
Me: My input is that if you want to beat me, then you should. If you don’t, you shouldn’t.
Him: Bitch, Imma fuck you up if you don’t start just answering the fucking questions. Jesus H. Christ. If I want to know what you think, then tell me what you think! God Damn!
Me: *lips sealed*
Him: I swear I’m not letting you get online anymore. EVAR!
Or:
Him, mid-spanking: Feel good, cunt?
Me: Maybe.
Him: What maybe shit? Does it feel good or not?
Me: Masterrrrrrrrrr, I can’t tell you because then I’m planting subconscious thoughts in your head and then I’m in charge and you AREN’T!
Him: Girl, honest to God. Do you really think you have so much control over me that the mere mention of your thoughts and feelings is enough to manipulate my hand? Christ Jesus, you need your ego checked!
Oh.
Well.
If you put it that way!
I mean, it really was quite disrespectful and egotistical to think that I had enough power to “lead” him into a scene or through a scene or in how to dom me or not dom me merely by answering questions or being honest about my feelings.
The thing is, it’s really hard to be a blank slate. It’s really hard to not have preferences. It’s really hard to not want something out of this lifestyle I’ve chosen. It’s really hard to not care what does, or does not happen.
It’s also dishonest.
I do care. I do have preferences and kinks and sensations and feelings and a whole fucking host of wants and don’t-wants.
Anyway, I’m well over all that. These days, I give all sorts of feedback, probably more than he ever wished for. But you know what? He really isn’t swayed by it.
He takes it for the information that it is, uses the parts of it that suit him and dismisses what doesn’t.
Besides, how can he even begin to make headway if I’m not forthright with how what he IS doing is affecting me. I’d turned it into a guessing game, all in the name of trying to do it right. It were crazy I tell ya!
Let’s take, for instance, the scenario I talked about in the last post.
I give him the reasons why I think it would be ‘way hot’ for him to do something. Or why I don’t want him to do something. Whatever.
He listens to those reasons.
Then he does whatever the fuck he wants anyway.
Is that topping from the bottom?
If he fucks another girl is it because I “topped” him? I think it might seem so because it happens to be a kink I’m interested in. For some, simply being agreeable and encouraging equals topping from the bottom. Like there has to be some sort of never ever giving the submissive what she wants or it’s not “real” or “true” or some such b.s.
For me, unless I were to say something like “You HAVE to go fuck that girl or I’ll never be satisfied!” or whatever… then it’s not. There has to be some attempt at making it happen *against* his preference in order for it to qualify as topping from the bottom.
And clearly, communicating my thoughts on it aren’t making it happen because he hasn’t done it yet and believe me, he’s had PLENTY of opportunity.
Just a matter of sharing thoughts is not attempting to manipulate. Not to him. And of course, his opinion is the only one that matters. 
Also- he has a genuine interest in pleasing me. He’s awesome like that. It’s not an entirely one-sided relationship. Hot as that fantasy is, he knows I’m a person and he loves that person and he enjoys seeing that person happy.
Not always.
Not every second of every day.
Not at the expense of his own happiness. Not at the expense of putting my needs above his.
Of course, he has to know what my needs are in order to make those decisions. He can’t know what they are if, in some twisted attempt of mine to be uber-submissive, I refuse to tell him.
So he gets the pertinent information. He weighs that against his own agenda. Maybe he decides giving me a morsel now and then is beneficial to his end goal. Maybe I lap that morsel up like gold. Maybe I have a moment of “omg. I totally just topped from the bottom because he gave me something I want!”
And then I knock it off. Because getting whatever that thing may be is a gift. A gift that I’m throwing back in his face if I start looking for ulterior motives. If I start suspecting him.
He does what he does because it suits him to do so. Not for any other reason.
Even when it appears to be for my benefit, even if I’m getting huge benefits from it, make no mistake that somehow, he’s benefitting more.
So those are my thoughts on topping from the bottom. What’re yours?
Uncategorized | kaya | 
Friday October 30th, 2009 9:02am
Kaya,
I’m going to upset soem of the BDSM gods out there in who knows what land. Topping from the bottom is whatever the master says it is.
……..
Gee, the world didn’t end, cool. Seriously, I’ve mentioned before that my biggest thrill in topping/dominating is seeing my sub have a great time and hopefully cum all over the place. So, you see, I kind of need to know just what gets her off to get my thrills.
Dave
I don’t play in the bdsm playground, so obviously take my comment with a grain of salt, but I think you think too much!
Srsly, I think a lot of people online pose as being this perfect sub/slave or whatever “i have no thoughts other than those He allows me”. Come on! Enjoy it as a hot fantasy but you are a living person, and a highly intelligent one at that. If he really wanted a mindless, blank fucktoy, there are blow up dolls for that. For example, he wants you to say when you’re horny? Doesn’t mean he’s going to satisfy you. Maybe denial is in the works.
Wow. That was a wonderful, insightful and POWERFUL post, m’dear. From someone not able to live that life, a really keen insight. This is a question that has run through my brain (as you know it comes up on a lot of blogs, all w/dif. responses). I think you did an excellent job of answering that question, and finding the “right stuff” for you two. As i was reading, I was nodding my head, agreeing, because Dom’s need to know. They make informed choices about what they do. If you (the generic ‘you’!) don’t give them that info, then they’re working half blind. That would piss me the hell off. I have to hand it to you. We might have to wait a day or so for your posts and miss the hell out of you when you’re gone…but wowza you come up with a beaut when you return!
Happy weekend!
Nilla
[rq=1039999,0,blog][/rq]Camp Nekkink ch 17
That hit home. Being the ever good slave girl my rote response was “Whatever pleases You Master”.
I think I got that past my lips once before He told me in no uncertain terms He KNOWS He can do whatever He wants and does not want that answer when asking me a question and considers it a copout. Blew my merry lil world all the hell! Answering is hard and an act of submission all in it self! Specially when you don’t know exactly what ya want and being someone who has to think everything through a thousand times.
Once again, as usual, you take something I have in my brain and actually put it into succinct and amusing verbal form that others can understand. I should just start paying you to be my “mouth-piece”. (STOP getting ideas about me actually paying you–I’m too much of a cheap ass bitch! LOL) Seriously though, I usually go with the belief that this thing we do, whatever it is for each of us, is defined by each of us, not some set in stone and covered with leather and blood list held by the “UTTERMOST TOPDOG MAGNA CUM OFTEN DOM”. (Is there such a hierarchy in Dom-dome?)So what if you have a Dom and I have a Dom and the skinny-assed, size 0 whiny bitch that lives across the street has a Dom and we all practice/live BDSM…but we all do it differently? Doesn’t matter to me that we are each different. Hell, I don’t want to be a copy of anyone else. Likewise for my Sir..he is seriously unique/different (warped sadistic bastard who thinks it’s all funny till the paddle handle breaks and it hurts HIS hand). Topping from the bottom? If I never gave feedback, how would he know what I felt, liked, disliked (for those times he really wants to be mean and use that against me), or how much more he could pull, drag or squeeze out of me? Have I been guilty of actually topping from the bottom as defined by the BDSM GODS? Hell yes! Have done it and I’m really freaking sure I will again…and often probably. I don’t always intend to do it, but I’m still guilty. Do I care? No. Why? Because my Sir doesn’t care. He likes my sassiness, my often feeble attempts at it and he thinks it is a challenge and the man loves a challenge. Besides, as he has told me many times, he never signed on to own a doormat or a blowup sex doll that just takes and takes and never gives back. For us personally, it is an energy-EXCHANGE…that being the operative word. I give, he gives, I take, he takes. I’m NOT one of those that claims “My way is right and everyone not doing my way is wrong.” I think we all do what is right for each of us. For me and my Sir, we’ve been doing it ‘our way’ for over 28 years now and each year gets better and better and so as they say, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Just my little 3 cents worth.
[rq=1040528,0,blog][/rq]MicroFantasy Monday-The Ledge (Truth, not Fantasy)
Being somewhat new to the D/s scene, but actively involved in an on-line relationship, she is free to give feedback, but not during play itself. When we are done, and we revert back to our real roles, vs. our on-line master/sub roles, she tells me what she liked and disliked. I know that having “real life” and D/s roles spoils the fun for some 24/7 fanatics, but we found that it works that way for us. 1, because we are both new to it and feeling our way around, and 2, because it’s cyber, i’m not there to enforce.
we keep it fun, horny, and happy that way.
[rq=1041366,0,blog][/rq]Disney Princesses, Feminists, and Trolls (me)
have had similar problem with kitten, when she believed by her saying what she wanted was topping from the bottom, taken her a couple of years to realise l do what l want, when l want, just because l ask her for input or feedback doesn’t mean she is making any decisions, l am just providing her an opportunity to provide me with input data so if she isn’t the one making the final decision then it isn’t topping.
[rq=1041780,0,blog][/rq]Friday, Shopping got expensive
So those are my thoughts on topping from the bottom. What’re yours?
I can’t tell you that. It would be topping from the side.
~Chloe
[rq=1042415,0,blog][/rq]Delayed Flights
GOD DAMMIT I didn’t close the italics tag right.
*hates the world*
[rq=1042431,0,blog][/rq]Delayed Flights
Were you in my brain and writing my thoughts again?
[rq=1042444,0,blog][/rq]And she passed out happily ever after
Close to yours, and closer day by day. I tried to do the same blank slate thing, and then I just got pissed off, bitchy, and resentful at him for doing all these yucky things to me that I just KNEW he was doing on purpose to make me miserable. (Of course in retrospect there was no way for him to know because I never said anything, and he was upset when he found out how unhappy I was, because, like, DUH, he loves me and was hoping he was giving me some enjoyment and didn’t want me to be like enduring sex with him just coz he was teh Dom. WTF?!!?) Now he is trying to get me to tell him stuff more and I am pushing myself really hard to remember that it is GOOD if I give him feedback, especially if he ASKS.
I cracked up when he said “I’m not letting you get online anymore.” Whenever he asked me where I got this idea that I shouldn’t say anything, I was like, “it was The Blogs!” and he was like, “No more blogs for you, missy!” Sigh.
Oh–I just saw what niya wrote. Yeah, I think kaya steals other people’s thoughts as they sleep.
[rq=1042499,0,blog][/rq]Misperception
So those are my thoughts on topping from the bottom. What’re yours?
Isn’t topping from the bottom closely related to a Cool Whip enema?
Just a thought.
I seriously lol’d at your scenarios. They sound so familiar.
*giggles*
I am so glad to see that I am not the only one that thinks she is sneaking into our brains at night when we sleep and sucking out our thoughts. Sure explains why I am so sleepy during the day and can’t think straight lately…got no thoughts left…shes got ‘em all. Hahaha. But that’s ok, we all still love the little cunt. (big hugs).
[rq=1044571,0,blog][/rq]Older and Better than Ever.
i’m still very new to bdsm, but one thing i learned very early was that by trying to be a blank slate for Mistress to play on i was doing Her a disservice.
for one, if She knows i enjoy or dislike something that doesn’t mean She will do or not do that to me. but She needs to know what things have what effect on me if She’s to punish or reward me. trying to guess the “right” answer is also a counterproductive exercise.
the other, blindingly obvious (to me) aspect is that if my Mistress asks me a question it is my duty to answer. if She asks me if i like something, then i’d better answer right away.
There’s a lot to be said for over-reading into things.
i am lucky to have had this stomped out by Sir early. He continuously encouraged me to share my thoughts and feelings because it is what *He* desires.
i can relate though- i oftentimes will get so concerned about letting Him down that i inadvertently overtake the mood with my worries and that’s no fun.
i think its simply, there are a million ways to define things such as topping from the bottom, discuss it with you Master or Mistress, or Dom, or Domme and abide by their definition. If questionable situations occur, ask for clarity.
Of course it’s easier said then done, i think we all can agree that there are times it may be hard to suck it up and ask.
Dear Kaya, your post made me laugh, because often, we have conversations like the ones you quote. However, with us, it is different, because while I am saying such submussive things on the one hand – on the other hand I do try to top all the time.
But whatever I try (and I`ve tried loads of things) – my husband won´t let me top in any way. My only successful topping from the bottom is, when I fall asleep and we, therefore, cannot play.
We are now talking about a serious safeword, though, because I have this really demanding job and sometimes need my sleep. But I think I couldn´t cope with having one. It would really be topping from the bottom. And I love my freedom to try and top and try and try and be absolutely safe that it will always always always be successless.
I always love your post, btw,
Tina
WHY oh WHY is this so hard?
Guess it gets worked out in every relationship..eventually!
I am still loath to open my fool mouth.. well except in a few instances!~
i will learn to talk..promise!
Topping from the bottom is the story of my life. lol My “Master” (I call him my Keeper) and I don’t use safe words or anything, but we have this odd … 24/7 but not 24/7 dynamic going on.
I think he likes me topping from the bottom. His butt bottoms from the top. *dies*
I tend to think that a good Dom/me is a smart, intelligent one. If the sub is silent or a totally agreeable, I think that can get boring after a while. Krishna says this to me when I don’t speak up. When bored, a Dom/me may have the urge to head elsewhere for the mental stimulation – another sub, a bar, or to some buddy’s place. I feel it is my job to keep him entertained here in his own home and that includes expressing my thoughts and suggestions about the night’s playtime, etc.
I love these sorts of posts that you do. They are so thoughtful and cover so many different variations of the subject. You rock!
[rq=1054748,0,blog][/rq]Julia Gone Wild
I had a lot of the same problems too. I was so worried that I would say something to tick him off that I said nothing, which ticked him off. No win situation there. But lately I have gotten better about saying what I want. I know I can’t expect to get everything I want, but he likes it when I give him feed back. There are still times though that I am REALLY hesitant to say what I want or what I feel.
Him: Hey cunt, wanna get beat?
Me, careful to keep my face blank: If you wish, Master.
Him: I know that, cunt, but I’m asking for your input.
Me: My input is that if you want to beat me, then you should. If you don’t, you shouldn’t.
Him: Bitch, Imma fuck you up if you don’t start just answering the fucking questions. Jesus H. Christ. If I want to know what you think, then tell me what you think! God Damn!
Me: *lips sealed*
Him: I swear I’m not letting you get online anymore. EVAR!
I swear, the Captain and I have had that conversation more or less verbatim. We both got a good laugh reading this.
[rq=1101706,0,blog][/rq]Rare As Frogfur*
So I read this post a few weeks ago, and let it percolate in my head, and then I have a conversation with Jay in the car about some of the content, without mentioning what sparked the thoughts, and he says “Yes, I read that post too.”
Oh. Okay so my partner reads some of the same blogs as I do, all unbeknownst to me. THAT’S not disconcerting at all!
Anyway. I’d (we’d) tend to agree with you – expressing one’s feelings, preferences and desires does not take away the agency of the other person in the relationship, and if you think it will, you’re taking away that agency all on your own by not giving them the opportunity to respond.
In other words, if as a sub you think that opening your mouth is going to control your dom, you’re probably really, insultingly underestimating them.