To Punish or Not To Punish. That is the Question.
I’ve read each response to the punishment post with avid interest. I’m endlessly fascinated with the differences in how people live this life. I’m even more fascinated by how quickly some are to criticize that which they don’t understand or incorporate into their own relationship. Myself included, though I don’t always see it as I do it. Not that any of the comments were critical, I don’t mean that. Other places, things that I read, are. Anyway, it only seemed fair that I answer my own questions.
What place does it have in your bdsm relationship? A big one, though I often suspect that Master and I aren’t on the same page with it. I think it’s much more vital to me than it is to Him. He’s prone to excuse, or forget, or neglect a punishment with little thought to it being anything of any significance, whereas that tends to send me into a tailspin. I wish He was stricter and would incorporate more immediate consequences and I think He sees that as work and so He doesn’t. And He’s probably right, it IS work, but that doesn’t change my desire for it one bit.
What is your opinion of those who “play punish”? This can be taken two ways. There are those who do the whole “Ouuu, you’ve been a nasty, nasty girl. Now I must spank you. C’mere you baaaad girl!” and that seems like harmless fun. But the real question I was asking was about those who NEED to have punishment as a reason to have a scene. If it’s a trumped up mistake or something taken out of proportion, and used as the catalyst for a harsh scene. Maybe the Top cannot accept that He’s simply a pervert, that “punishing” her for her transgressions makes His kink okay, or the bottom needs that reason to explain away her desire to be hurt. I can see that it could be damaging, if one party does it that way but the other doesn’t. If a Top uses punishing as the excuse for every scene, I can see a sub becoming frustrated, thinking she’s never doing anything right.. or something like that. Or if a sub who needs the punishment excuse is beaten just for sadism’s sake, I can imagine she’d feel unfairly punished, like she hadn’t “deserved” it. I can definitely see where it would have to be a mutually agreed upon method or the potential for damage is high.
I can also see some of Master and I in that scenario too. But I need to think on that before I expand on it.
What do you think of couples who disguise their kink behind domestic discipline? Actually I think falls into the previous question. Spanking, either giving or receiving is a kink. The need for it, the need to administer it. And in DD relationships, it’s used, apparently, in a punishment sense. Behave or Be Punished. There HAS to be, from both parties, a kink for punishment, because if there isn’t, you’ve either got a wife who is being non-consensually punished (abused?), or an unwilling Top catering to his wife’s kink. (and rearrange the gender pronouns as you need. I’m not doing the slashy-slash stuff.) So my opinion of people who engage in a strictly DD relationship is that they have a punishment kink. Or maybe not. I freely admit that I am not well-read on DD dynamics.
Do you think the word ‘punishment’ is incorrectly used, when a more appropriate word like discipline or training is more fitting? Yes. I really do. I could say that my “punishment” for the whining, screaming, ass fucking of the other day is a return to the butt plug schedule (that I hate), but that would be incorrect. I think. It’s NOT a punishment, it’s a training technique or a disciplinary measure. I wouldn’t even say that writing lines is punishment (though I hate that too!), because the content of the lines that I’m made to write are designed to “train” something into my head. A word definition or a rule written out 500 times can really slam it into my memory. That’s discipline. But I also think it can be punishment, too, sometimes. So is the deciding factor on whether it’s discipline or punishment based on whether it follows a transgression or not? I’m not sure, but I think it might be. Having to write those lines as a standard or to reinforce something would be discipline, but to have it assigned because I’d already broken the rule pushes it over into punishment? Bah. I contradict myself, I know.
Are you of the mindset that a submissive should just behave and that punishment of any sort is ridiculous? No..lol. Then I’d be sunk. I know there are people who operate that way, but I’m SO glad Master is not one of them. I need room to be imperfect and stubborn and stupid and willful. I need to know that He’ll come along and conquer me all over again. The idea of having to be “perfect” with no room for mistakes would be more than I could take. If that makes me immature or incompetent, I’m fine with that.
Is there a point where repeated punishments for the same offense seem to point to a deeper problem? I think so. Though that deeper problem could just be forgetfulness (like me!). But it could also signify something that warrants a closer look than just repeated applications of the same consequence.
If punishment is a factor in your life, is there/has there been any struggle to find one that works? Oy. Yes. That’s why He has several that He uses.
Have you, as a masochist-submissive, willfully been disobedient purely for the sake of being punished? Ayup.
If the whole punishment “scene” is an actual admitted kink of yours, can you also have genuine punishments that don’t trip the trigger? Well there are certainly some things that are worse than others, but when one of my kinks is actually the method of having consequences for my actions, I don’t think there is anything that doesn’t flip that switch in some way.
Is it possible to maintain the punishment dynamic if you don’t both have some element of punishment kink? I mean, if there isn’t some area of eroticism about it for one of you, do you see it working in any capacity? I don’t. And I think this might be where Master and I run into some troubles now and then.
And lastly, does anyone who does incorporate punishment in their lifestyle acknowledge the extreme difference between a punishment spanking and a non-punishment spanking and how one cannot replace the other? That simply “asking to be spanked” does not scratch the right itch or feed the right hunger or soothe the right burn.. that there is something; something heavy and sinfully exciting and deeply satisfying that is only ever touched by being harshly, forcefully, and thoroughly punished… that no matter how good you want to be, no matter how much you dislike His disappointment, no matter how ashamed you may be… it’s there and it’s strong… Nobody really touched on this in the comments, but for me, this sums up my feelings about it perfectly. It is something entirely different than a regular spanking or a regular scene and it does give me something that no other amount or application of pain can even come close to, which is why simply asking for a spanking or asking to be hurt doesn’t take the place of having messed up and having been punished for it. And is also why, no matter how much I know He doesn’t like it when I misbehave, I occasionally do it on purpose because I feel like I’m STARVING and DYING for not getting that need met… and is also why, when I have genuinely and unintentionally messed up and He blows it off for whatever reason, it completely and totally fucks up my world for a long while. In a bad way. And I don’t necessarily like this about myself, at all.
and maybe, just maybe… it’s conquering that need that is the real path to submission? Or is it? I don’t know. Maybe. I work on trying to conquer this every day. Sometimes I’m real good at it, other times Im not. I know I’m way way better than I used to be. And to be honest, that kind of makes me sad because I feel like I’m killing something inside of me. It makes me feel defeated.. and dead.
Is it just another harmless but misunderstood fetish, just another point for people to judge or claim superiority on because they’ve never felt it in that way? Yeah. I think so. It’s another way of saying “my kink is okay, but yours is fucked up” coming from people who really should know better.
I don’t know that there is any way to explain a punishment kink, just as there is no way to explain a fisting kink or a bondage kink. You can discuss how it feels physically, what you think in the moment and out of the moment, try and detail the need it fills in you – but to explain the why, it’s just not possible.
But I’m so tired of being ashamed of it, you know? Weary of feeling less-than, and being told that it’s wrong, fed up with thinking there is something wrong with me, or that I just don’t get it.
So I’m going to try to not feel those things anymore. That’s one thing that I’m certain has no place in my life. Everything else is a work in progress. It probably always will be.
~cunt
Tags: M/s rambles, opinions, punishment
Sunday May 18th, 2008 11:34am 
Holy smokes this is a lot to process in one post. My Master isn’t the punishing type. It’s taken 3 years to get him to the point that he realizes that I need punishment for things in order to atone for them. He’s much more a positive reinforcement type of guy and I like that, but for some of my stubborn ways the only way I’m obeying is if there is punishment if I don’t.
A lot of people I’ve read and at the local munch have 2 definitions of punishment. One with a capital P and one with a lower case one. The capital P people believe that Punishment is the atonement for transgressions and helps correct behavior. Users of the lower case punishment consider it a play scene where punishment is of the ‘naughty girl’ routine that you describe in your posts.
I personally don’t subscribe to either. Playtime is about play, never punishment and being disciplined is meant to be as non-erotic as possible (being a masochist this is hard, but Master loves corner time and I HATE it).
Separating play from punishment for us has been restricting one implement that is used for punishment only. Because it never comes out in play there is a mental switch and an implied realization that the following is not for pleasure. For us this is the cane. I’ve never been erotically attracted to canes so when this comes out I know I’m in for an unpleasant time.
But I’m so tired of being ashamed of it, you know? Weary of feeling less-than, and being told that it’s wrong, fed up with thinking there is something wrong with me, or that I just don’t get it.
So I’m going to try to not feel those things anymore.
Good for you, babe. I couldn’t agree more, couldn’t have said it any better myself. Good on’ya.
From the beginning of our relationship there have been consequences when I didn’t do things according to my owner’s wishes. Back then, I wasn’t online yet and I never thought about bdsm so I didn’t call it punishment. In fact, I didn’t call it anything; it was just there, you know?
I’m not sure how I would react if that aspect of our relationship would suddenly disappear. I think I would probably feel that he doesn’t love me anymore or that he doesn’t find me worth the effort anymore.
I see a huge difference in the pain that he gives me “just because he (or I) wants to” and those painful and terrible consequences that only happen when I have messed up. It should therefore definitely not have the same name in my opinion.
I also see a difference between those two and disciplinary actions. These are meant (in our relationship) to educate me, to point me into a certain direction, to refresh my memory or to make something VERY clear to me. They’re not always fun but they’re not as horrible as a punishment and I never feel them as such.
I’m going to try to not feel those things anymore.
I wish there was a “I don’t give a damn” button in my head that I could push sometimes and then all the asshats and their remarks would just go poof.
Punishments… They give a different light when examined from the “Other Side”. How does it feel for a Master to punish, is it hard ? Cutting communication off when being appart is certainly a harsh one but it also affects the Master – it has happened to me and i sure have learned from my errors. When it comes to corporal punisment i tend to believe Master likes to inflict it. And, it is very reassuring to know He enjoys Himself even when i don’t. In this way i can relate to you kaya, these things we hate to feel being done to us are thrilling memories and dreams for the future, they can make me smile because Master likes to do them and decides for them : it doesn’t feel the same to beg for a spanking and be the initiator. Trying to manipulate Master by breaking rules to get it is more vicious héhé because He can enjoy punishing exactly the same as long as He is not aware – but we don’t want to go there do we ? Could it ever be as fulfilling… This is not the way i function, but when examining some of the faux pas -as yall say in english- that i have “thoughtlessly” made i believe i have this somewhere deep in me too. A silent cry for even more attention maybe ?
As for my side, i know i need punishments. i love that i am going to learn, and i love that the case will be closed after and no grudges held : this is what i say to myself as i expect the announced punishment – not sure that it would have succeeded to keep me from going insane after a time of anticipation as long as the one you just shared with us kaya, i think this is when i finally got hooked on your blog (Envision me checking in day after day and blinking lol)
Thank you for everything you share in this journal, your Master is sure treating us by making you do it !
This was really helpful to read–your answers and luna’s too. I don’t “get” the punishment thing for myself–it never really computed for reasons I’m not sure I can explain. Maybe because the feeling of guilt and agony from doing something “wrong” or “bad” does not mix well with sex (or relationship) for me–I don’t want shame and negativity invading an area where I’m trying to open up to losing inhibitions and experiencing new things and emotions, including things my Master wants me to experience.
Of course, I’m in a little bit of a bind because an experience my Master wants is punishments. He mostly wants the play punishments, I think both as a pretext for inflicting pain and for the psychological kick they give him. (In other words, it turns him on to think of punishing.) But he’s also comfortable inflicting pain for no reason. So . . .
I definitely think that if you are really seeking to mold behavior through physical means, the right word is “discipline”, just because that encompasses all the things Masters do to shape their subs behavior–positive feedback, negative feedback, and structured routines.
Basically, whenever I read your stuff I’m back again to the idea that if the kinks work for the people involved, and they are happy and predominantly healthy, that’s fine and then they’re doing stuff right. Everyone else should just go stuff it.