But I see it, I mean it, as a more abstract idea of “all day fantasizing”. In that, this is the situation that He created, the focus that He wanted and fostered and sacrificed to make. He systematically eliminated, with great skill and determination, the outside distractions that prevented me from focusing on slavery and service and usefulness (etc. etc.) He demanded, still demands, that my number one priority is being His slave, of always being mindful that what I do is in service to Him. I don’t *just* clean the house because I’m a housewife. I clean it the way He wants it cleaned because He wants it cleaned on the day He wants it cleaned. Which may sound like I’m trying to romanticize the simple fact of cleaning the fucking house like every other person has to do, but it’s not meant to be that way at all. It has been beaten, sometimes literally, into me that every act, every move is done for Him or because of Him, or because He allows it.

The very existence of my day IS focusing on slavery. Not hours spent daydreaming about it, hours spent doing it. So yeah, I focus and focus and focus on the mean, awful, rotten but lively things about it because I cannot NOT do so anymore.

Maybe that makes no sense. I don’t know up from down anymore.

You’ve hit something right on the head though. And that’s the manipulation, the topping from the bottom, the bargaining.

I well remember the bratting, and I think we’ve moved far past that. Except in instances where we both know it’s happening and it’s actually happening in a teasing, enjoyable manner, we’ve conquered that beast.

However, to lay this particular beast open for Him feels much, MUCH the same way. Here I am saying “Look, if you don’t beat me/use me as I need to be beaten and used, I’m left to fall down this rabbit hole of angst and depression and self-denial” is it not exactly the same thing? Am I not saying “do it my way, as I need it, or else”? It feels like I am, when in fact, I do not mean to be. I’m merely acknowledging the problem without expectation that He can or will do diddly squat about it. In fact, I’m more searching for ways that *I* can “fix” it because I dare say that whether He acknowledges it as a “problem” for Him, I do not anticipate that He’s going to change or alter what He does with me anymore than He ever has.

I’ve been reading your blog for a rather long time and have always enjoyed it.

This…is an interesting question, I think. The expectation and the desire and, perhaps, the burying of it…

I think it’s made all the more interesting if you consider the situation and – perhaps more importantly in this instance – the nature of a D/s relationship.

When does a desire for something become “taking control” and when does the sublimation of that desire become abuse; of a sort that W/we’re not actively seeking to cause.

In the first…

Perhaps the “if than” scenario. IE: ‘if you do this, than I’ll do that.’ In that instance, and others of a similar nature, one might say that – depending on the amount of “power exchanged” – the sub was, in effect, Doming from the bottom; depending.

*Pauses…*

I suppose that would also have to take into account the relationship itself. If it were only a – please excuse the delineation – “mild” D/s relationship than I suppose that wouldn’t be too hard to contemplate. A “bargaining” type situation…

I don’t believe that this is however, what the question was in regards to… Please correct Me if I am wrong in that assumption.

Proceeding in terms of a relationship slanted far more towards the Master/slave dynamic, than yes I would imagine that such a bargaining would be an “attempt” – however unconscious – to wrest control in some way. Especially if it’s done seriously as opposed to brattily (That’s not even a word, Gah!). As in – not mis behaving to get “punished” (I remember those threads, *Chuckles.* Not bringing that up) but seriously “I’m not doing this until you do this for me) type situations…

Then again…that links back to the second point, when would the sublimation of that desire become “abuse.”

If it gets to the point when ones desire – their /need/ – isn’t being met…then should you really be keeping quiet about it? Regardless of the nature of O/our relationships, the power exchanged, the things sacrificed and the limitations placed, I would imagine that all of U/us have an emotion connection with O/our partners.

While the desire/need may or may not be immediately satiated – indeed, or any time “soon” – it should, in My opinion at least, be brought up far, far before it even gets to the point when one has quenched it to the degree that it can’t be fully enjoyed when it is given.

But herein lies another problem…

If you were to spend all day – and I apologize for using this specific example, I don’t mean to single anyone out in My thoughts – fantasizing about something in specific…then are you not going to be horridly disappointed if it doesn’t happen?

I’m loathe to use the term but, in effect, isn’t it a form of “setting yourself up for failure”? I say that only because W/we all know that said situation may or may not occur, and the act of fantasizing about it and/or anticipating it makes /not/ receiving it all the more painful. Which would intern provoke the severe level of internalization that can happen.

What’s to be done then? I don’t propose that I have all – or any of – the answers, more that I’ve Mine own rambling thoughts.

I would propose however that this path that W/we all walk implies a certain level of self-sacrifice – admittedly, far more on the part of the submissive – especially when it comes to the fulfillment and satiation of sexual fantasies and desires. If only because, by very nature, the relationship slants deliberately towards the Dom(me). At the same time though, I would say that it is the Dom(me)s duty (there was another word I wanted to use here and I can not, for the life of Me, remember what it was), without exception and without fail, to know His or Her sub.

And, specifically, their moods, their wants and their desires. So that the self-wounding and self-sacrificing act of trying to smother a desire to an extent that it becomes harmful does /not/ happen. The act of constantly acclimating to the wishes, whims and wants of Ones submissive…I dare say is not the goal in that. The act of making sure Ones submissive is happy and healthy however, is.

And, on this Path W/we travel, with it’s deliberate limitations and withholdings, I think that is an incredibly important thing to learn to do.

At the same time however, I would imagine that the act of holding an idea in your head deliberately has a strong opportunity of leading to a bad thing happening… I would imagine that leaving the knowledge that it /will/ happen at the forefront as opposed to the actual act of it happening…may help in some aspect.

Regardless though, if it feels as though your slipping down that path towards a far more hurtful self-denial: SPEAK UP. Don’t let it happen and don’t let your Dom(me) let it happen. Perhaps they’re not aware of it or the strength of that need or desire.

…My sincere apologies for the length.

i hope that kaya does not mind if i read/post on her page here. do you mind? if so, i will not anymore and i am sorry for doing it.

i am finding myself like a little puppy dog following carrie around…it feels kinda funny, but somehow she always gets in my head and i don’t even think it is realized how deeply and how often it happens.

this time what i read was dead on.
i was just nosing around and i saw the question that started this. i became curious, so i read on. when i got to carrie’s answer, i found myself unable to stop reading it because it was SO accurate and it had eluded me for SO long.
usually i am pretty good at getting in my own head. admitting it might be another story, but i am ok at it.

what carrie wrote explained a lot for me.
btw, you made perfect sense to me, but you know me and how i am so you know that that is not saying a whole lot! ;-)

i think i know the answer (for me) but everyone is different. Having said that, i believe that having expectations no matter who you are is absolutely necessary.

Otherwise, what the hell is the point?

(we go to work because we expect a pay check. we eat salad 5 days a week and hit the gym with the expectation of looking better naked. we give ourselves to our Dominant men with the expectation that they will protect us as much as violate & abuse us. i don’t think it’s necessary to speak your expectations or call attention to yourself, but i think, to some extent, they’re always there. Little voices inside of us).

We come into the world with expectations and enter relationships of platonic, romantic, sexual, or D/s with some basic expectations to fit our needs. If they aren’t met, we choose different paths. Isn’t this right?

Thought provoking.

For me (and we’ve talked about this before, you and I) it’s kind of like…
We sit around half the day thinking about what we’d like to do and all the nasty, wonderful things we’d like our guys to do to us when they get home. We fantasize and devote a ton of our attention to anticipating these things…
And then Dude gets home and he just wants dinner and a quick blowjob and a good nights sleep.
So we bury the want for the night and move on.
This goes on for days, weeks, months sometimes…
We get agitated, whiny, bitchy, out of our proper “place” because we’re, while happy and content in general, perhaps not getting all the s/m and direct, in your face control and displays of power we crave.

So we get to a place where you bury it down deep and stop thinking about it all day, stop letting that desire be at the front of our minds.
Cuz that’s what we “should” do, right? Sit and patiently wait, serving and being in our proper places until our Dude has the time, the desire, the energy, whatever, to give us what he wants to.
I mean, it’s not the same if we force or guilt them into it, right?
And, besides, being a slave isn’t about us, right?

So we bury, and bury, and bury…
We modify our expectations…

And next thing you know…
Even though a part of you, deep inside, is aching for the things you’re not getting, another part of you can’t seem to let that ache, that need, that desire free anymore.
Even when you GET what you’ve been needing it’s not quite the same, not quite enough or something.
Because you’ve shoved that shit so deep inside to prevent the pain of not getting, to prevent being a whiny, needy, high maintenance bitch that it’s just not possible to free it.

I mean, you can.
But it’s dusty. It’s rusty. It’s cautious. It’s scared.

It knows it’s going to have to go back to being buried, that it’s only being let out for a little bit and that’s kind of like asking a flower to grow, bud and bloom all in a single day.
It just doesn’t work that way.
The wild, uninhibited, craving response we give when our need, our desire, has been nurtured and fed regularly simply doesn’t happen when we’ve been burying that desire.

At least for me.
When I consciously let go of my expectations I have to smother the desire. Otherwise I get resentful. I get disappointed. Things don’t work right when I get disappointed and resentful.
I dunno.
I’m not making a lick of sense.

I know some folks manage to retain that sense of being a writhing, needing, aching thing despite having no expectations. Manage to want while still staying in their patient place.
I can’t.
When I drop my expectations the desire slowly but surely drops, as well.
I think it’s self protection.
It hurts less to wait if I make myself not really want it, if I’m not feeling rejected every time I don’t get it.

Argh.
You say something.
I swear I can’t get a complete, intelligent thought out properly to save my soul lately.

His mija~