Speaking of clouds –
Storm clouds that is.
Things with Jes aren’t improving much at all. She’s really not liking the tough love approach one little bit and she’s a very persistent girl. She’s actually been at my mom’s house for the last little while, which has been a welcoming break I’m sad to say. She’s not going to be living there or anything – she went there mostly because my mom has been sick and we thought that Jes could go there and help out (seeing as how she’s not in school or working or doing anything else), plus it would give us time to work out the recent mess without her in the middle of it.
So anyway, her and I have done nothing but argue on the phone as she continues to try and negotiate her way into getting what she wants. I’m sticking to my (Master’s) guns though. If she wants to come here, it has to be under our rules.
I can understand and sympathize with her views on school right now. It is a very small school, she doesn’t have a lot of friends or a support system there (by her own choice because she quit school before making any friends here) and now, having to go back pregnant? Plus she’s missed half the year, she’d be way behind and there is no way to recover this last semester. I’m not real keen on forcing her to attend a school where she’d literally be snubbed. That all ties into her anxiety/paranoia issues which was why she dropped out in the first place. Now it would be worse and I just don’t think this school is the best thing for her right now.
There is an alternative school where she’d be less ostracized because everyone going there goes there because of one problem or another, but it’s just about 30 miles away. I’m not saying making that drive isn’t worth it, but knowing that she’d likely not finish it makes investing that kind of time and money into it seem like a complete waste of resources.
Which kind of puts me in a bind, I think. The rules are school or work yet both are difficult for her right now. Finding a job, at her age and in her condition, is going to be very hard. We live in a college town, there is a plethora of mature, responsible young adults to compete with for all of the jobs that teenagers usually have. It’s difficult even for non-pregnant, high school students to get hired around here.
I really feel stuck. Though she did suggest, on her own, that she’d go back to this high school next school year and repeat the year. That seemed like a semi-positive, semi-cooperative statment – from her.
She knows that she can’t do this on her own. And she’s accepted, albeit grudgingly and unhappily, that we’re not going to support her outside of this house. So her latest plea has been wanting the b/f to be a part of the pregnancy and birth. First she wants to know if she can do the doctor visits, etc. where he is so he can go along. That’s about 4 hours from here. So, yanno, let’s get an obgyn that’s 4 hours away because that makes sense. It’s not like your doctor needs to be anywhere near you or anything.
I put a kebosh on that. If she wants him to be a part of the doctor visits then she needs to live there.
Why do you have to go there, Jes? Why can’t he move here if y’all want to be together so badly?
Well cuz, mom, all of his family is there! He can’t leave his family!
But. You’re quite ready to leave all of your family to be with him, aren’t you Jes?
So then she wants him to at least be there for the birth. Can’t he come and stay with her (aka, stay with US) when it gets close to that time? I tell her, you know that due date is just an estimate, right? You can go into labor at any time around that date. Or, at any time period! So, what? He’s gong to come and LIVE with us for that last month or two? Um, no. I don’t think so.
And, I had to ask, by the time you are close to being due, Jes, he’ll already have one baby, with you almost ready to have his other kid, he’ll be just turned 18 and, gee, don’t you think he should have a fucking JOB by then? Two kids, 18 years old – is a job factoring in his plans any where at any time?
Well no, mom, because he wont have a car and he can’t take the bus and he’s still in school and gee, we can’t expect so much from him. He just wants to be there and I want him to be there and why can’t you understand that!? Why don’t you want him there! How can you keep him away from our babeeeeeeeeeeee?
Gah.
Why should I even give two fucks about this kid? How is that he is even okay with encouraging her, in any way shape or form, to leave her entire support system and do this on her own? I’d like to have me a sit down with this boy.
I explained to her that couples who want that kind of family unit and shared parental involvement don’t get knocked up by a kid who lives in another state when they are 17 and cannot, by themselves, make SURE they can have that. But that’s not how they did it and, I’m sorry, but these are the consequences for doing it the way they did. You have to make sacrifices to have it done right.
So she’s literally sobbing hysterically on the phone. I, me, evil-est person alive, am going out of my way to make it difficult. As if being pregnant isn’t hard enough, I have to make it worse for her. I’m not letting them be a famileeeeeeeeee!
She makes me want to beat my head against the wall.
After trying to reason with her (2 hours on the phone last night) I’d just had enough. I mean for real. She has NO idea what she’s heading in to and NO idea what she’s asking for. She really thinks that there are agencies and places that will make sure she has everything she needs. That all she’s asking me for is a little bit of extra money to pay for gas. She is so wrong.
So I told her about about this news story, about how this little baby almost died because those agencies that she’s relying on? Don’t fucking take care of everything. Yes they *help*, they’ll give her SOME, but not ALL. And who’s going to make sure her baby has the rest of what it needs? Her? Her unemployed boyfriend? These agencies? Welfare?
No. Nope.
Me. Master. That’s who.
So I don’t give a FUCK about whether or not the boyfriend can be here for your doctor visits. I don’t give a FUCK if y’all can’t make the arrangements so he can hold your hand while you give birth. I don’t care if he can’t see the baby as often as you would like. What I care about is that the baby doesn’t starve to death, that it wants for *nothing* that it may NEED, which is apparently far more than daddy’s concerned about. I’m not the one who got myself knocked up yet I’ll be the one making sure it’s taken care of so save your boo-hooing for someone else.
And then I told her I loved her and I was going to bed.
Tough love. I has it.
But it hurts. God almighty.
:-(
Speaking of Jes, I need some suggestions for Christmas. I’m completely at a loss for what to get her.
I’m reluctant to do a bunch of baby stuff right now. I just think that any number of things could happen – miscarriage, maybe she’ll go the adoption route or whatever – and I really don’t want a load of baby stuff sitting around here should it end up that way. And if she is considering adoption, the last thing I want to do is discourage that by setting up a crib in her bedroom, you know?
Money is completely out. I will not give her money. She’ll blow it all on stupid shit, like buying her stupid lazy boyfriend something, and it’ll piss me off.
I can’t do clothes. I figure the size 5 Hollister jeans and size x-small tees that she likes are likely a thing of the past.
I don’t know. There is no “thing” that she wants/needs. I’m still not convinced she’s going to stay here because I know if there is any possible way that she can work it out to stay down there with her man, she’ll go for it. So I’m not getting her anything she can sell either.
I’m considering just getting a couple of gift cards and telling her that I’m going to hang on to them until after the pregnancy. Maybe one from wal-mart and she can go shopping for baby stuff (should she keep it) after it’s born. Maybe one for clothes because I’m sure she’ll need a different size than what she has currently.
But that seems like a craptastic Christmas for her. B-man is getting his wish (xbox 360 elite) and Am is getting her laptop, plus we got them the rock band game that they’ve been lusting over for forever. But Jes gets a couple of gift cards that she can’t even use for another 6 months? I don’t like it.
Maybe it is what she deserves but I still don’t like it.
Bah humbug.
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Uncategorized | kaya | 
Monday December 15th, 2008 8:22am
Hi Kaya.
I’m a lurker now making my first comment.
First of all, thank you for continuing to write. I love your blog and I love reading about your – oh so different to mine – life. And offcourse I feel with you conserning to your problems with Jes. That’s a really crappy situation she got all of you in to. But I really belive in Master and yours tough love – thing. If anything can help that girl then it’s your tough love.
So now I’ve said that.. And I’d like to send some hugs and best wishes. Keep up the good work!
(and please excuse my crappy english – I’m from Sweden you know ;) )
Xmas gift suggestions for She Who Proved She Is Fertile:
1. Gift certificates for the boyfriend to come visit for a weekend. It would include a motel room and 2 meals. This could happen at the 6 or 7 month mark of the pregnancy IF she makes all appointments and does as the Doctor tells her regarding pre-natal care.
2. A couple of pens and some journal books so she can keep a diary of her pregnancy. It would be a great gift for the baby when it is older and might, just maybe, help Jess examine her life.
3. Ever see one of those ‘practice’ babies they use to teach youngsters how to care for an infant? Might be an eye opener for her.
4. Ask at one of the agencies if they might know someone in the same situation but about the baby is about a year old. See about getting Jess and her together for a few hours. Kind of a ‘this is what the future holds’ chat but from someone her age.
Just some suggestions. I don’t know her, the situation, you or any of the other players well enough that I can say ‘Do This!”. Just trying to throw some out ideas out there in the hope you might find one helpful.
Best Wishes for a great Holiday Season.
Does she read, have a fav author? Get her books. Does she have a TV in her room? Get a cheap DVD player and some movies. Get a pregnancy journal as well. Let her write down things (in case she does keep the baby)
Get a decent digital camera. Let her take pics.
Will she do crafts? Go to Michaels. Look for something simple she can do to pass the time but will give her an end result to appreciate.
*HUGS HUGS HUGS HUGS HUGS*
If Jes is having a hard time in school and she is claiming that her issue is feeling isolated and poked fun at, I can understand why you feel reluctant to force her to attend. However, she’s also not working, so she has a lot of free time. Have you guys considered letting her finish her last (year?) via correspondence courses or online classes? She would have to study on her own time and teach herself the material, and then sit for proctored exams at a local school. There are several online resources for this, and it may solve your problems. She cannot claim her problem pursuing an education is feeling made fun of by the other students if there are no other students and she can learn from her bed.
Furthermore, online college degrees have come a long way. She could even get a degree from an online institution in a really shortened time period from the house, all while raising her kid.
The correspondence class is a *great* idea. My Dom dropped out of high school in the 80s due to family issues and finished via correspondence class. Now, he’s in his mid-30s and is a successful software developer. (He never did go to college, just taught himself how to program. Do I sound proud of him? ‘Cause I am :) )
It’s awsome! I’m doing the Gymnasium (equalent of Jr College or UK 6th form, I think) at the Swedish Correspondance Gymnasium. It’s the best thing that ever happened to me, ‘cuz I can study whenever I want to as long as my assignments are in on time. Totally works when I screw up my sleeping hours.
I hope Jes gets to her senses soon. She doesn’t seem to be feeling well, even without the baby in the picture. *sigh* Maybe a Dr Phil-invention? ;) Or Rikki Lake with her baby-dolls who were screaming all the bloody time. Having a baby is tough.
Perhaps a subscription to a magazine or several massageappointments further a head in the pregnancy where she could relieve the achy-back-issues pregnant women seem to go through? There also someone who does mother-baby massage, where they massage the mother and the baby at home. All though that might be for next christmas, when you know if she’ll go down the adoption route.
Otherwise, I’m so on the pregnancy-journal idea as well.
Perhaps a presentcard to a place that sells mommy-clothing?
Awesome idea.
i am doing my degree online through Open University. it’s great…though you do need to be pretty disciplined when it comes to time-management.
weirdgirl.
I think the correspondence course is a great idea.
My oldest dd is doing CLASS (www.homeschools.org) and she really likes it. It’s about $500 per school year and it is really a reputable and do-able option.
There is also Penn Foster ( http://www.penn-foster.com/highschool.html ). There are many different programs that are decently priced!
I do think her points and concerns are very valid and I’m very impressed that you’re willing to help her find another way to get her diploma. Yay you!
Emilie
Hi!
haha I wrote this whole thing, then found the above comment. so here is my two sense in regards to that.
Again, I mostly lurk, but I thought I’d throw my two sense in. I went through the “troubles” in about grade 7- nothing awful. I was from a small town, moved to a BIG city, went to a fancy schnancy private school… which turned out to be an epic fiasco. the girls all had way more money then scholarship me, all had an eating disorder… it was a fiasco. Anyways, I moved back to the small town with my dad (who would have thought) and ended up being home schooled. Granted, it was just for 5 months, and granted I did not have any- most- of the Issues Jes does, and I KNOW how much it puts on the parent, and that you have more then enough to deal with… but maybe just to get her caught up for this year… almost a compromise, or the chance for her to PROVE that she has what it takes to deserve to go to the alternative school. But, it takes a lot of responsibility on her part to do the home/virtual school. It is very easy to slack off, do nothing, forget about it. Good luck!
Gifts for Jess -
Gift certificate for a manacure/pedicure. You can take her when she wants to go and spend some Mom/girl time together getting a foot massage and pretty toes.
School for Jess -
In our state kids can attend virtual high school. It is all sanctioned by the state and free. It may give her a chance to catch up and earn credits this year without falling any further behind.
Sounds like you had that little bomb in your head go off that I’ve had happen before with my teen. Seems like there’s a point where I go from feeling sorry for her, being hurt that she’s in the situation she’s in, and wanting to protect her and then she’ll do/say something and I react with “you just pushed me too far, NO, I’m not going to do xyz, I REALLY AM NOT going to do abc and if you think you’re going to get 123 out of me, you’re not nearly as bright as I give you credit for.” They ask for a little, and a little more, and then some more, and they don’t ever know when to quit. ~ sorry about that, didn’t mean to take over your rant ~
take care,
junebug
Another excellent option–the virtual academy! They don’t exist in every state, but many states have them. These are two great ones. We actually did k12 for a while. I didn’t care for the “school at home” approach, but for high school it is an excellent option!
http://connectionsacademy.com/
http://k12.com/
Please note that a foot massage isn’t always advisable during the early stages of pregnancy. The feet have pressure points used to induce labor….
http://www.learnfootmassage.com/pregnancy_foot_massage.htm
just a PSA
Kaya,
I empathize with your situation. I watched my sister go through what Jes is currently, as well as my parents (who were divorced and had totally different views on the situation).
She went to school, albeit an alternative school for unwed mothers, and then went back to regular school after the baby was born. She learned how to use and manipulate the system while living at home, rent free…my nephew was almost a year old and she still had not matured, in my opinion. My father, whom she was living with at the time, finally got tough and laid down the law. Not liking this one bit, my sister packed up herself and my nephew and moved clear across the country to be with the love of her life (who was not the baby’s father, by the way). They broke up about a month later.
Fast forward to present day, my sister now has three children, has been with the same man for 16 years (he is the father to her other 2 children), went to school and now works as a legal secretary in a law office.
My point here is not to show you how difficult it can/will be for Jes…you already know that. But to show you that although some do choose the more difficult path, it can turn out in the end. I know my sister had to grow up pretty fast once she had moved away and was without a family support system. Of course, it was not the way anyone would have chosen for her, but it’s the way she chose and she had to live with her choices.
Not sure any of this helps, but I thought I’d share my sister’s story because it’s not the fairy tale but did work out in the end.
I’ve only commented once or twice before, mostly just lurking, but I am a longtime reader and appreciate all that you share with us.
Btw, does this boys’s parents know he’s about to become a father twofold? I know if it was my son in this situation, I’d have a few choice words for him about responsibility and how he needs to step up and help out the mothers of his future children.
here where we live they offer an online course that kids can get credits toward their diplomas. the program also provides a free laptop for the student.maybe they have the same thing there?
a few of our teens friends’s are expecting so they decided to go that route. thank heavens our teen has seen that being a teen mom is hard so she gets the shot and uses condoms. most of our teens friends’s call Mistress and me mom so they come to us alot to talk. the thing our teen and they say is ” you both are strict with rules but we know you have them because you love us and care”.
our teen did move out for awhile because she didnt like the rules~she came back after a few months and we are now closer than ever. when she was gone i literally had to sit on my hands so i wouldnt call her and tell her she could move back. i remember feeling like i had lost my baby and she would hate me forever. at first she did hate me but she came around to realize we had set boundaries because we love her too much for her to not have consequences for her actions.
as for a christmas present-when our daughter in law was expecting the previous baby (she is expecting again-i dont think these kids know what makes a baby-lol) we bought her the “what to expect when you’re expecting” book. we also bought her sweats, big tshirts and alot of things for the bath. she loved them :)
Mistress also is getting the xbox360 elite for the family and rockband. i think our youngest daughter is the next eddie van halen by the way she rocks out on the guitar.
Oh, boy, remember those types of arguments – round and round you go. You’ve got to get off the merry-go-round. First argument: gyn 4 hours away is not safe, and her safety along with that of her baby is your first priority. Whenever she restarts that argument, you simply state without rancor “we’re not going to debate this, that decision is made, you and your baby are too important to take chances with”. Next issue – What mother would not want the father of her child with her at a time like this – a child having a child doesn’t separate that from the other issues. If we can feel sympathy for that, then we need to show understanding for those needs although you don’t have to give into them. When she says she wants him with her for dr visits surprise her by saying you wish she had that to. When she shouts “you do not or you’d help me do (let me go, et.), you answer ” I want him there because you feel you need him, but I can’t afford the money to take care of him and you and you’re my priority. He’s the Dad – it’s his job to get here and help you and his baby. If he gets here, we will welcome him. This is hard – if he does – do. She will be looking for anyone to blame for why he won’t come before she can blame him. You can point out to her (again without rancor) that maybe an after school job would help him get enough money to come for the birth. If you show her that you are willing to help him come (put him up in your home,tolerate him etc, no money), and then he is willing to do nothing, it may open her eyes to who is truly on her side. These are impossibly hard things to do, but these are the kinds of things that can break the patters and turn things around. She needs to know you won’t debate or enable her, but that you love her and will absolutely not give up on her.
Try going to the alternative school together and discuss just the specific problems with finishing you’ve discussed here. I’m sure they’ve seen these problems before, and may have very specific programs that combine finishing at home, online or GED.
Do not give up! I know from personal experience that from where you are, this relationship can be turned around. Just don’t let her pull you into those debates.
Christmas presents: How about personal treats? She wants to be pretty, and she’s starting to be less so. The spa idea was good, personal beauty items, the digital camera with a little personal printer. Does she have an Ipod type thing she could use for music and photos?
Wow, what a predicament (not the good kind)!
I’ve been reading your daughter’s recent soap opera unfold and have nearly posted several times, but now is the time.
First, I have a daughter who was extremely difficult when she was Jes’ age. I am a single mom (she is now in her 30s) and worked my ass off to make sure she was in a good school system and had some of the things she needed. Actually, I shouldn’t say she was difficult…she never was with others; it was OUR relationship that sucked. I remember one year, when she was in college, I had just started dating again (after 15 years of being “mom”) and had other plans on the day she decided I needed to go pick her up after her semester (coincidentally, mother’s day). I arranged another ride for her (with relatives, who picked her and her stuff up without incident) but she still managed to say “if you were a better mother, I’d have gotten you a mother’s day card.”
There have been so many times in my life that I’ve cried myself to sleep from my daughter’s entitlement and rudeness.
So now, I just can’t keep my mouth shut, sorry.
Jes has learned the fine art of pushing your “inadequate mother” buttons. She is pushing. PUSH PUSH PUSH. Problem is, everytime you respond, you are strengthening her behavior. Which makes her push harder and makes you question your parenting.
STOP. Please. STOP.
God, Kaya, you are a wonderful mother. Maybe not June Cleaver, exactly. But you give your kids so much, and giving them Scott may well have been your best gift yet. You ARE a great mom!
My husband’s niece had a baby at 17. Father walked out a few months later. At 19, she had another baby (“oh, the baby’s father is a great guy, he’ll be around forever”). Second “baby-daddy” walked out. Niece is doing the same kinds of things Jes did (exaggerated sense of entitlement, “you owe me”).
Sheesh, I have a ton of things to say, but they’re not coming out very quickly.
I have grave concerns that Jes is romanticizing this pregnancy to get her emotional needs met and that the “sperm donor” (my guess) doesn’t want a thing to do with this. Yet, out of her low self esteem, she is trying to build the apparency of a relationship to somehow justify this pregnancy (not to mention feel better about it all). I might be all wrong, just guessing based on life experiences.
I believe in tough love. And I believe in natural and logical consequences. If you rescue Jes, the consequence for irresponsibility becomes a free ride with no consequences. Sure, we all make mistakes, but they do come with consequences. There is also “leverage”, using positioning to get what you want from someone who is making terrible choices and still needs parental guidance.
I work with teenagers and things aren’t so black and white when it comes to pregnancy anymore (in terms of being shunned at school). Lots of girls are showing up pregnant and the ramifications aren’t nearly what they used to be.
I also like the ideas of home schooling or computer learning.
Okay, now it’s starting to sound like a ramble, which is not what I intended.
I just wanted to say that I wish you could be aware that Jes feeds your sense of inadequacy and she knows she can get what she wants by doing that.
When you are talking with her on the phone, and this starts to happen, just say “I love you” and “Bye”. Then go get some positive feedback from Scott on your parenting skills.
Do not positively reinforce the behavior or it will keep occurring. Simple rule of behavioral science. Reinforce what you want to keep happening, ignore what you don’t want to keep happening.
Maybe you guys should be on the “Super-Nanny” show (do you think Jes is too old for time-out?). She’d teach Jes a thing or two…LOL…
Hope I haven’t offended you,
di
Oh yeah – a box of condoms for her stocking!
I think some great ideas are already up here… But I think (since the other kids are getting what they ‘want’) then something with the baby-daddy might be in order. I know, i know, probably it’s not what YOU want. But you don’t have to make promises or have him stay at the house or compromise the position you’ve already taken. Then she gets something she wants – time with the father of her baby – and you’re not out your home, your stance, or your sanity.
I like the idea of some kind of gift certificate for a hotel room, meals, something so he can make the trip for a weekend, and they can do something together. (And, yes, provided she’s doing everything she needs to do up until that point in terms of working, doctor visits, etc.)
The guy sounds like a prize idiot, so who knows what will happen between them in the next few months (especially since he’s got another baby on the way). So he might come, and I have the feeling that would make Jes happy. And if he doesn’t come? Still money well spent, in my opinion.
If you’re really looking to keep the guy out of the picture entirely, stuff like spa treatments might work… They’ll be nice if she’s pregnant and keeping the baby, they’ll be nice if she’s pregnant and not keeping the baby, and they’ll be nice even if something happens and she miscarries.
Good luck!
~Chloe
Hi Tess:
Well, I thinkt he gift ideas for Jes by Outlander were right on. Honestly I couldn’t have come up with anything better. But, I have to say, if my hunch proves right, this boyfriend won’t be around for long, especially with the other baby shows up. So have an alternative gift secretly planned, as I think the baby’s dad will be a no show. Actually that’s probably why “Mr. Dad” is still in contact, because he knows you and your owner won’t let him be with Jes. It’s SAFE for him.
As for school, I’d let Jes get her GED and then look into some college online or tradeschool courses. She may not be cut out for a college type career, but she may well be set up for a very useful and rewarding trade, like hairdresser, manicurist, etc.
In the meantime she’ll be home with a little baby, maybe, just maybe, she will want to get her feet wet with an online course.
Give it some thought. Your baby is having a baby, and she’s made a choice that she’s going to live with, all of you will live with for the rest of your lives. She may not thank you now, but believe me, she will in years to come.
kaila
I think the suggestions for mani/pedi certificates are great, and that made me think of something else. I’ve seen a few ads for various spas that have something I think Jes could enjoy…a pre-natal massage. It’s supposed to help relieve stress that is common in the bodies of pregnant women, and I’m sure it would feel great! Maybe you could find a place that would let you get a certificate for a massage or a pre-natal massage, and that way it would be a lovely gift, regardless of a miscarriage.
What about gift cards to the Body Shop or Bath&Body Works? That plays in to the feeling-pretty concept. She probably wouldn’t be able to use it for the baby-daddy either. They also have nice fuzzy socks and robes at Bath&Body Works, and those might be appreciated, regardless of pregnancy.
I also liked the iPod idea, and if she does already have an mp3 player, maybe a gift card to iTunes would be a good stocking stuffer.
How about jewelry? That is good, whether you’re pregnant or not. If you wanted to spend a similar amount that you are spending on the other kids, you could get her a lovely quality piece of jewelry that she could wear for years to come. Fashion jewelry would be a good stocking stuffer also. How about a gift card to Claire’s, or a similar shop? She could pick out silly trendy jewelry for herself.
I hope that a few of these suggestions help, and I just wanted to say that I think you are doing the right thing with tough-love. Stay strong. ::hugs::
Get her a vibrator, so this won’t happen again. >>
these are only my thoughts, but i absolutely would not arrange anything for the boyfriend to come, either in your home or at a hotel/motel… if he wants to see her, let him figure it out.
the bath items sound great to me, as do sweats, warm socks etc.
i love the idea of a journal- just a normal journal for her thoughts and feelings..books are also a great idea- but i would go the self help route- growing up- single motherhood, careers, finances for women etc..
i would absolutely make/ drag her to either alternative school or online school and make sure she finishes, no arguments from her. her education is the only thing she will have to help her, whether she keeps the baby or not. finishing high school, especially right now, should not be an option for her.
i also agree on the not letting her drag you into arguments about what she wants… i would listen – for a moment or two- then go on to another subject and if thats not possible, say goodbye, i love you..
if you feel like you need to spend the exact same amount on each child, open a savings account of some type for her, but stipulating that she cant get access to it til shes at least 20 yrs. old.
stay tough sweetie- thats the only thing that will help your daughter at this moment in time. in the end, your love for her will come through loud and clear.
hugs,
Hisflower
There are some great ideas for Christmas gifts listed. Perhaps scrap book materials — she can make an actual scrap book or she can make poster “art” that can hang in her child’s room someday. You could give her a small recorder so she can record thoughts, songs, poems, etc. from this journey — an audio sort of journal. However it ends, it is a life experience and she’ll have things happen to her and with her through this that won’t ever happen exactly this way again.
As for the endless arguements, they will end when you decide to stop arguing with her. State what is, and then go on. If she wants to argue and push, your response ought to have no HOOKS. For example, you’ve stated that the baby’s male parent is not going to come and stay with you for the birth. When she tells you that you are the meanest, most horrible, most awful mother in the whole world, you simply look at her and say, as gently as possible, “I know.” and walk away. If she tells you that she is angry, sad, miserable, etc., you express that you hope she feels better soon and walk away.
Most importantly, start sending her the absolute message that you know (KNOW) that she can handle this. You’ve already offered the appropriate supports, and I know that you have your doubts about her ability to handle it, but it is vital that you not convey your doubts to her. She has made a decision that thrusts her into her adult life. Each time you take away or take on one of the decisions or choices that should be hers, you reduce her chances of doing what she must do. You and Your Master must put away your own fears and let her have this. She has the option of staying in your home, with your support, under your requirements. If she chooses otherwise, your message to her ought to be a clear and steady, “we’ll love you no matter where you live…”
If she is going to get the growing done that she needs to do for her sake and the sake of this child (if she keeps it — and it is my belief that adoption really might be the BEST option), then she needs to get on with it. Make sure that you aren’t keeping her from doing that with endless arguing and second guessing.
Most of all, know that you are not at fault here, and not responsible. You may choose responsibilities connected to this, but those are choices. Do the very best that you can to make those choices with a clear mind. Your very best ally and resource in all of this is the Man who owns you and cares for you. He is not as emotionally invested and that makes Him a better judge (probably). I bet He’d have hung up the phone without investing two hours… Yes?
Hugs, swan
I don’t have any new ideas to add about gifts, but just my two cents about the “negotiation process” with Jes.
Whatever the three of you decide, consider putting it in writing and having all of you sign it. This way there is none of the “but you said” stuff later, and no ambiguity. I’ve used this tactic many times and it never fails! :D
Dear kaya,
Not that suggestions require an amen, but swan’s comments are so right on the mark.
This sounds really hard. Definitely have her look into correspondence courses, or other kinds of adult ed.
What swan and impish1 said were great. Getting drawn in is very easy (I get sucked in sooo much) but it’s the best thing you can do for both of you if you don’t.
as hard as it is, i think that you are doing exactly the right thing… it is really tough, but the bottom line is, she’s not mature enough to make these decisions on her own. if she was, she wouldn’t be pregnant right now. its the sad fact that lots of girls don’t understand that a 99 cent condom is a whole lot cheaper than a baby with a stranger. stay strong, you’re doing what she isn’t able to do for herself.
As one of your lurkers…
- I’d say maternity clothes, she’s gonna need them.
- I like the idea of a gift certificate / IOU for the boyfriend to come visit for a night. Despite, what I assume is a desire not to encourage the relationship, i think that you can’t force keeping them apart nor should you let him live with you the last few months of the pregnancy. I think that this would give her an idea that you are willing to work with her, and you don’t hate her / and are willing to compromise on some things.
- mani / pedi gift cert.
- a baby journal / picture frame / photo album for the baby.
As for feeling bad about her not getting what she “wants” this christmas, my view is “oh, well, you shouldn’t have gotten pregnant, and dropped out of high school and not have a job.”
When is she due? and What do the other kids feel / think / say on this subject?
Good Luck.
I’m struggling with what to get my own lost boy for Christmas? Will he be in the service? Will he be in jail? On the lamb? Will he show up for Christmas? What to get for the boy that had everything & pissed it away… it is not a happy conundrum.
Kaya,
There’s not much for me to add; lot’s of good comments and ideas. My roommate’s eldest daughter is currently out of work and in debt, partly because of a former asshole boyfriend. She wants money for Christmas. I’d be more inclined to do so if I thought she was looking for work, but she isn’t. The simple fact of Christmas gifts is that no one “deserves” anything, and certainlu there’s no requirement (or shouldn’t be) that each person gets the same (whether measured in dollars or how much of what they wanted). A gift is from the goodness of our hearts, and sometimes we need to choose to give less to give more. For example, I’d never give someone who’s not working a computer for Christmas so they can find more ways to not look for work. Give Jes what she needs for Christmas, even if it ends up being nothing. I know that sounds heartless, but seriously, you can “be nice to” someone to they’re detriment.
I know, you already know this. Lust wanted to reassure you that you’re not an ogre when you stand firm. Even God says no to prayers soemtimes, and there are some of my prayers of the poast that I’m eternally grateful He said no to.
Dave
I am a strong, competent, happy person. I know my strengths – which are many – and I know my weaknesses – which only make me human. I feel good about myself, and my life. And I never, ever would have gotten here if my mother hadn’t finally dropped me on my sorry ass. She loves me, she cares about me and I went through a lot of legitimately tough times when I was around Jes’s age. But it led to this pattern where she would do everything for me, help me in any and every way she could. Which is nice. And which I needed, for a little while. But then… she kept on doing it and I kept on letting her. And then, a few years later, suddenly I was this 20 year old little girl who had never had to hold down a job, make my own doctor’s appointments… anything. I didn’t even order or keep track of my own medication. I had no license, I had stopped going to school… I was just kind of existing. Somewhere along the line my mom figured out what had happened. And she stopped. All of it. She didn’t kick me to the curb or anything, but all the extra play money that I was getting from her for no reason stopped. She stopped making my appointments for, left it up to me to… well, to live my own life. We both wish we could have realized what was happening a little sooner, now. At the time I hated her. I resented her for carrying me for so long and then abandoning me – because, of course that’s what it felt like.
Lord a’mighty, I just wrote a book, lol. My intention was not to give you my life story, say sorry. I just want you to keep on feeling like you’re doing the right thing. My mother did the right thing – I am a happier, healthier person for it. You’re doing the right thing and you’ve got an even earlier start. It’s hard on both of you, and sure she’s gonna be bitter, and angry, and hurt. Just know that somewhere down the road she really will thank you. It really is the BEST thing you could ever do for her. And remember that she makes her own choices – you raised her, gave her what values and smarts you could – but can’t nothing take away free will. She’ll be alright.
I’m also thrilled for you and your Master; I’m so glad everything’s a’right between you.
Big hugs.
Happy Christmas, Tess. I’ve been reading your blog for just a few weeks and this is my first comment to you. Before I start, I want you to know that I appreciate your taking the time to compose your thoughts and share them with us, your readers. I hope doing so provides you with some positive energy in what sounds like an otherwise very negative environment.
About me: my wife and I have a more traditional dom/sub relationship than the ferocious nature of your relationship with your ‘master’. It doesn’t sound as though he’s much support to you in this circumstance, but I don’t know all of the details. Is he helping or hindering? If he really cares about you, his presence should make your life better. As that quack Dr. Phil always says, nothing is more important than raising your kids.
The best thing you can do for your daughter is to get her back in school as quickly as possible. You don’t want her to learn that running away from your problems is acceptable. Remind her that she’s not in school to be liked, to date, or to have a great time. All of those are fine, but they’re secondary to the main purpose: education. Receiving an education is her primary ticket to a better life for herself and your grandchild. Schedule a meeting between you, her, the school counselor and the principal. Discuss your daughter’s situation and solicit the school’s support and guidance. I’ll bet that there are programs designed to assist girls in your daughter’s situation about which you don’t yet know. There may be child care programs or work study programs, about which you’ll ever know if you don’t ask.
I would check and see if there are cyber schools in your state. If there are, she could take all of her classes online at home and graduate.
Just a thought about a job … What if you treated her getting a job like being on unemployment? To continue getting unemployment, you must apply for work weekly. Since you think it will be tough for her to get a job, what if she focused on trying to get one, applying for jobs regularly, ect. And as long as she is seriously making an effort, then that’s enough for now?
GED… then college, even online classes for awhile. My sister dropped out in 9th grade, got her GED at 19, went to college and is now a teacher. Whoda thunk?
Just a thought about Jes and Christmas.. first thought that popped into my head was.. what does your Master suggest??
Then i thought buy her some music cd’s..or favourite movie dvd’s as well as the gift cards..
not much more advise from this ole lady……. brain dead i guess..
morningstar (owned by Warren)
Gift cards for Prenatal Massages, something to soothe her body and nerves. And gift cards for a maternity clothing store (She may need clothing later after her pregnancy, but she’ll also need some things to wear now while she is pregnant).
As for school, why doesn’t she go for her GED? Then she can skip right into college courses through a distance program. There is a great college (that I attend) that offers distance learning (WED program) for women who are young mothers as well as women who are looking to seek a degree later on in life (ahem, Tess). Check them out… http://www.smwc.edu
Congratulations on a very hard, very successful phone call with Jes! You’re being so strong and helping her so much. My thoughts are with you!
Oh, to add to that. If you want to do something ‘special’ for Jes for Xmas that she can’t take too much advantage of, perhaps in addition to the gift cards… if the thing she wants most in life right now is to be with her bf, maybe the thing to do is a pair of movie tickets, a gift card to a nice-ish restaurant (‘nice’ as relates to teenagers – somewhere they can wear jeans, most likely) and the offer to drive her to his region for one day (but not an overnight). I suggest this for several reasons:
- it confirms Jes’ relationship at the scale it should be confirmed at – that is, it says they’re ‘dating.’ So they can go on a grown-up style ‘date’ on your dime.
- it proves your interest in whatever she’s feeling without unduly supporting unrealistic expectations.
- it sets up the lazy boyfriend to fail in the most epic of ways if he can’t be bothered to schedule a day to spend with his girl – and if it turns out that way, Jes learns something about him.
- if he actually does get it together and they go out, they have some face time, and if there is any hope of them being a famileeeeee, they will need it.
It does sound like a tough situation. Do you really feel strongly about him being in your house? Could he come for a single night or a weekend like any other guest who was a friend of your daughter? You could make it clear that he was welcome to visit, but obviously would find his own transportation. You could set whatever rules you wanted for his visits, I do understand it would be hard to invite him to sleep in your daughter’s room.
I think that the suggestions for gifts were terrific, little things that will give her pleasure. It doesn’t have to be a spectacular gift, but I don’t think an IOU for a gift for after the baby is born would be nice. Books and socks and manicures and diaries would certainly be much nicer than that.
What does your Master think about this now? Or has he backed off to let you be the Mama Bear you need to be?
Good luck, as you can tell we are all rooting for you. Don’t let her get you too mad. She does need you now.
tina
Hi,
I don’t comment much but I do have a few ideas I think might be a good idea just in general or maybe even for her xmas presents if you want to go that way.
1. Jes could get her GED and then take some online college classes. Her present could be that you would play for so many classes or one program depending an which one she decided to do.
2. She could take online high school classes. Then go on to take some other classes.
If she agreed to taking a program or some classes would hopefully give her a better chance of getting a job. Plus she could go to school even when her feet are swollen and sore. Most of the programs if you look even have payment plans or scholarship. If she does a high school program she can get credit for the classes she has already done.
If you would like more info orgood programs feel free to contact me
Just a quick question: what does SHE want for Christmas? Have you asked? I’m sure she’ll probably say something like move in with the baby’s father but tell her that just isn’t a realisitic possibility and what would be something she’d actually want?
The pregnancy gifts are a great idea, but personally I would try to get her something just for her as well. The way I would think about it would be that you’re getting your other two kids their dream gifts, and if I were in her place and on Christmas morning my presents were gifts I could only really use for nine months I think I would feel pretty upset. In the sense that I would feel sad that these gifts are only useable for such a short period of time, and I think on some level I may feel less loved/valued even if it’s a wrong feeling. Sometimes feelings just work that way. Obviously I can’t speak from Jess’s point of view, but I’m one year older than her and have two siblings so looking at it that way I think that’s how I would feel. I could be completely off the mark.
Maybe you can ask her to make a Christmas List? That way you can at least make sure you get one or two things she actually wants for Christmas aside from things she’ll need. Obviously, as you said, getting baby things is risky because you don’t know whether or not she’ll be keeping the baby. Also, if she asks for things like having the boyfriend come over for the pregnancy on her Christmas List just tell her it’s very unrealistic and that she may be disappointed in her presents if she doesn’t ask for something you can actually give just her.
As for the school, I can understand her POV here too. My mother was 15 when she had me, and she stayed in high school. It was very very difficult for her, many people were very mean to her as well as teachers told her she was ruining her life. Now my mother is a respected high paid doctor with two more kids and she’s doing beyond great. So while it’s a difficult time for Jess, I’m sure she’ll make it through. The only way that was possible for my mother was by having her family support her, much like your own is supporting Jess.
Lots of people had very good ideas for helping her get through school. Correspondance is probably her best choice because it’d probably be best for her to be at home during her pregnancy and she’ll probably be bored to tears. It’d be something for her to do and it’s on her schedule aside from just getting her work done on time.
Anyways, I hope your family has a very merry Christmas and that everything goes well for you guys. Warm wishes for the season.
I have a suggestion about Jes and the school/work thing.
Since she is expecting and getting a job will be near impossible and the school thing is out – for now, how about parenting classes? Would that satisfy your requirements? Is there a place (The Y, maybe) that she could take classes? Then, when baby is born, she could look for the job and or go back to school?
I have no idea what you can get her for Christmas. Maybe the gift cards are a good idea, but I would still get her something for right now..Cd’s, or a couple of movies maybe.. I dunno.
I was 18 when I had my eldest daughter and I lived in a home for unwed moms. I hated it, but I got the parenting classes that I needed. It turned out ok, too. I have struggled for a lot of years, but my daughter is now a college graduate, and has gone back for yet another diploma.
I hope that you have a great Christmas, Tess.
Oops. That was me. Sorry.
WOW! You’ve gotten some great advice here — Contradictory, but still wise. If I ever have a problem of this magnitude, I hope I’ll have a group of super friends to help me.
Be strong. Your doing great, whether you know it or not right now.
- Don
I can’t add much more to the xmas gift ideas. I know its sucky, but your right, she bought it on her self and no she has to deal with the consequences. I agree with the baby daddy motel idea. Least you wouldn’t have to him in your house and then you would be saved from wringing his neck cos justifiable homicide won’t work.
Anyhow, I am sending you hugs and lots of strength.
bliss
xoxox
I might be wrong but as i see it, if Jess lives in your Master´s house when the baby comes, the baby will be yours, not her. Jess will be a child as long as she live with her parents, and a child is not likely to feel like a mother. With you there the baby risk becoming Jess little sister or brother instead. Do you and your Master really want another kid now? I may sound awful, but i think you have the right to think about yourself too.
What if Jess goes to school in that state she wants to move too? And have you spoken to the daddys parents, maybe they can help with the situation too.
Lots of hugs and warm thoughts
sommar
Hang in there girly!! It’s hard but dont give in! Once you do, you are forever wrapped around her finger. Remember to stand together as a united front!
I understand the situation you are in, as my boys are now 26 and 27. Been through the fussing and arguing. I side with you and master and what yall decide should be the law. She can take it or leave it. Yes tough love is very tough and hard on all involved.
Good Luck.
Tess,
How about two birds with one stone? A great Christmas gift AND something she needs. ( though she don’t know it right now)
The American School. It’s a way to earn a real high school diploma through correspondence. I Have both of my boys doing it and they are doing very well. Better than they ever did. Also gives the parents a way through the web to keep track of their work and grades. It wouldn’t cost very much seeing as she has some high school work done already and you can make payments if need be. Nothing to worry about as it is done at home. They send all the books and stuff needed to complete it through the mail. She can do it where ever she is. Just a thought.
http://www.americanschoolofcorr.com/
I hope it helps. Yes Tough love is just as tough on the parents. My heart goes out to ya. Stick to your guns. love ya all.
Dear Kaya and Scott
I really hesitate to comment again on your blog, because I always seem a little off base on what is happening in your lives, but I will give this a go one more time. As to “what to do about Jess” issue:
Do not give her ANYTHING baby related. Allow her, and you and your family, to have one last Christmas as just Jess, your teen aged daughter who wanted some (God knows what useless thing, find out of course) and give it to her. Maybe she wanted that stupid overpriced flat iron, or some other gizmo or gadget, that yes, maybe she can hawk someday, but that would be her choice.
Do not give her gift cards, that just says I don’t know you well enough to actually get you a real gift, so here, you figure it out.
No manicures or pedicures or massages, please, these are not teenager gifts.
No savings accounts she can’t access until shes whatever age, that says, I don’t trust you enough to make good decisions now, so I am controlling you one last time until I think your ready to make a decision.
Allow her one last childhood holiday season.
Then later, when all the children are hibernating in their rooms as kids will do, you and Scot can go in together and hand her one last gift from the two of you. If Scot would, have him hand it to her and say something like, your mother and I wanted you to have this.
On top could be a hand written note from you Tess that says something along the lines of:
We just want you to know that we do love you. And that we will support any decision you may make in the future. We know it will be hard and difficult for you, but you will always have us in your corner. We also want you to know that you are now, and will always be, our first baby girl…
And she would open it and find a digital picture frame, where the pictures change every few seconds. And that first picture is of you in the hospital, holding her as a baby, grinning ear to ear. Then follow that picture with her entire life growing up. Pictures of just her, of her and the family, of an old best friend, terrible school pictures, of all kinds of memories.
This is something she will keep with her forever. No matter where she goes, and what is happening in her life, she will have one thing from her mother that will be about her, and she will treasure it in time. Perhaps you can save a little memory on it at the end for her to add pictures of her and her child should she chose to go that route, but don’t tell her that. Just let it be about her, one last time.
The whole, you’re pregnant and have all these things to do, is in her face all the time. Yes, we know this, but give her a chance to breath, and think, then act. Don’t push, but don’t give in either. Have expectations and stick to them, simple as that.
(as far as loading the pictures into the frame, you are going to have to pull out all your old family albums and retake those pictures on a digital camera so you can up load them. Time consuming yes, but therapeutic for you too. Those photo shop programs are your friend!)
I love you both and think of you often. I hope you don’t mind my two cents again, because once again I am not in agreement with the masses. (no offense anyone!)
I truly hope you have a wonderful holiday season, and I wish you all the very best.
Sincerely,
twisted
What a rough time this must be for you.
I wanted to offer my support in sticking to your guns. You are not helping your daughter by enabling her.
An OBGYN 4 hours away? No one will take her, too much liability.
Online schooling sounds perfect for her.
I would suggest telling her that her boyfriend is an adult and is free to make plans to come see her and be with her, but not in your home. It’s not your problem to solve, it is theirs. Welcome to the real world kids, where we all have to work for what we want.
Frankly, she is laying on the guilt rather thickly. I can tell you she will never turn her back on you for long, but you may want to prepare for a time when she is not in your life and has to learn things the hard way.
I hope you are able to take some time with your Master and family to enjoy the holidays. Remember all that you have and be grateful.
Stand your ground! Your Master is right and you know it, stay focused and present a united front and things will settle down. If you go back and forth she’ll exploit that weakness. When my children bring up a subject I have given the last word on, my response is always, “I have already answered that question.” If they don’t like it, they can get a job or find another way to get what they want.
Hugs
So glad to see you and Master working it out. :)
Being a military wife I am a huge fan of homeschooling. I looked at your state laws, and they are pretty easy. :) I am not sure what you think of homeschooling, but I love it. I wish my Jr. High daughter would go back to it. We are expecting a baby next year, and Master and I have already said this child will only be homeschooled. With my teenager, well she always has the option of running back to dad.
You have my email addy so if you would like more info feel free to email me. Not all homeschoolers are super religious. :) I don’t know where you live, but many areas offer homeschool activities and sports. There can be band, chorus, yearbook, football, cheerleading, basketball, soccer, prom, homecoming, etc. Then there are even graduation ceremonies. It is a thought.
I know there are even colleges now that offer a high school diploma online for homeschoolers. OU is one that comes to mind. There are ways to homeschool and get an accredited diploma.
Of course she would have to be willing to follow your (Master’s) rules and guidelines, and that might be harder for her than she thinks.
[[[Hugs]]]
What about a therapist for both of you ? sounds like that is a key element that is missing and she needs it now to help her with tools to resolve this issue. Also, if she is in her first trimester she has hormone angst going on and it may subside some over time. Gosh girl, what a fine mess she made – personally I would not negotiate anything with her. She is asking for insane things she has no right to. I don’t hear her asking for help on how to improve her situation, just things to make her happy TODAY.
First of all, I totally agree with Twisted–no stuff for the baby, no money or things she can’t enjoy right now.
Also, a caveat… I’ve heard that, with lots of companies going out of business and filing for bankrupcy this season, it’s not a good idea to buy gift cards/gift certificates because if that company does file or close, you’ve lost your money and the cert. doesn’t get honored.
I wouldn’t buy anything for the boyfriend, because what message does that send to him: thanks for knocking up my daughter and not taking responsibility for it, so let me feed you and send you to the movies and pay to put you up in a nice hotel? I don’t think that’s what you want to say to Mr. Little Punk Daddy.
As for the massages, that’s right… an older person might really appreciate them, but I doubt that’s the sort of thing Jes wants.
Are you wanting to encourage her to work out a way to stay at home that is appropriate for your family dynamics? If so, I’d suggest a room makeover for her bedroom at home. You could repaint the walls, get new sheets and a comforter, and do some other stuff to make her room more comfortable and more ‘Jes.’
It might not be a big electronic gadget, but you could do it on a budget similar to that which you spent on the other kids, and it would be useful to her no matter what happens with the baby. Also, if you did it in her taste, it would let her know that you understand what she likes… who she is… and that you want to affirm her good qualities and encourage her to still be part of the family (stay in the family home). It sounds like she has very little that is about her right now in her life, and a pleasant place all her own to retreat to might be ideal, especially if she will be doing correspondence classes (which is a fabulous idea).
You and Scott both seem pretty handy with the whole home improvement thing, so I think you pull off this project on a tight budget. Also, my Mom did a similar thing for my birthday during the rockiest year of my life and our relationship, and it really helped… it said she cared enough to think about how I would want my room to be, and that she wanted me to feel at home in her home even though we had problems.
I hope this helped…
~Meg
All I can offer is a hug. Never been in your shoes to know what I would do. I only know what I think I would do. I do know based on past experiences in my life with my behavior that tough love was the only way to go with me. It may have taken a few years but my head finally did emerge from my ass. :) I’m sending positive thoughts your way.
btw enjoy the peanut butter (extra ass) cups.
something to think about as far as agencies are concerned –
in most states, child support is a right of *the child* not of the *parent* and there is a special interstate agency (Division of child support enforcement) which is free to single parents who are trying to get child support for their children. even though the kid doesn’t have a job, he does have a responsibility to jes’s baby. even if jes says she doesn’t want to go the legal route, and he doesn’t have any way to pay for it even if she did — by filing early, the money will eventually come. so in two years when she’s had enough of him and is ready to take anything she can get, the file is open and he’ll owe whatever the support is, plus interest on any arrearage.
it is definitely worth taking the time to look into, even if whatever money is simply put into a trust account for the child when its time to go to college.
good luck.
*muah*