Respect My Authoritay!
Authoritay - Word use to show authority but in a bigger more dictatorial way, used by people who have more power over others or people that think they have more power than others. ~ Urban Dictionary
Awhile ago I was going to do an entry about the tv show “Wife Swap” but trashed it. A recent testy discussion over at Fetlife has resurrected my wife swap thoughts.
Wife Swap, if you’ve never watched it, is where they take one family and then find another family that is the exact opposite of everything held near and dear to them and then – duh- swap wives for two weeks.
During the first week, the wife has to live by the rules of the family. In the second week, she changes up all the rules and tries to enforce her way of life on them.
It’s all very dramatic and soap opera-ish, and of course, during the 5 minute follow-up flair, they’ve always learned valuable lessons about themselves and changed for the better – blah, blah, blah.
Many, many, *many* episodes feature a submissive wife (and they even use the word “submissive”) who has to swap with some corporate-climbing, fiercely independent, career woman who would rather eat dog shit than wait on some man.
My daughters, while watching the submissive wife episodes and seeing the dramatic conclusion where the dominant husband “sees the light” and stops expecting his woman to file his toenails, will hassle me about going on the show.
They joke about Master having to get his own drinks or fix his own plate. Even though we’ve (the kids and I) talked many times about it being my choice to serve him that way, etc. etc., it’s become a topic they like to razz me about.
They accept, with some amount of.. distaste, I suppose… that the lifestyle of a submissive woman, this old-fashioned arrangement, is what makes me happy. They also say that it is NOT the path for them.
And it doesn’t have to be. Master and I are not training them for it, nor do we push it on them as a “preferred” or “superior” way of being. It is *for us*, and we live it without shame, but it is not, obviously, for them.
God bless women’s lib. God bless the power of choice.
That is why Wife Swap would fail to make Master “see the light”. In that show, those dominant men and submissive women don’t see it as a choice. In many episodes, they are training their children to emulate their lifestyle. Whether due to religious or moral beliefs, they feel their chosen way of living is the superior one and they *want* their children to copy it. They deny them even the exposure to other options.
Those men believe they are, or should be, dominant over ALL women. Those women believe they should be submissive to ALL men. That that is the Natural Order and anything else is undesirable.
Master and I don’t believe that. We don’t preach that, we don’t think that, we don’t even come *close* to raising our kids with that philosophy.
We believe that it works for us. Specifically for us. He is dominant over me – not over women in general. I am submissive to him – not to men in general.
I will, mostly, respect the dominant position that a male, or a female, has chosen. I will respect it based soley on some imagined (to me) hierarchy in my world. Not to mention that Master himself expects that I respect another’s dominant position, male or female. (But that respect is within reason, which will be further illustrated in this post.)
Master treats dominant women, submissive women (except for me), dominant men and submissive men as his equals. He affords the most gentlemanly courtesy to everyone. He does not think himself “better than” any one of those groups of people.
Master doesn’t resent women in positions of power. He doesn’t have issues working along side, or even under, a female. He doesn’t trash-talk women, he doesn’t disrespect women, he doesn’t find them useless or worthless. (He does think women are lousy drivers, though. Man, that just burns my ass! But that’s another topic for another day.) He doesn’t think they can only function in the kitchen.
Neither do I. I do not think that woman’s lib is to blame for the breakdown of society. I don’t believe that only men can successfully navigate the corporate world. I don’t think my daughters are foolish to dream of better things than housewife drudgery.
Gone are the days when a woman needed a man to survive. Long, long, long gone. That caveman-esque way of life is no longer needed in today’s world. A woman’s only path to fulfillment is not to serve a man. If it ever was!
Probably some of this may sound at odds with other things I’ve said in the past. My views on a female president, for instance, certainly could have been misconstrued as mysoginistic or in support of male power. But as I tried so hard to express in that post, my views and where my comfort level lies are specific to me, and me only. I don’t, because I’m a smart cookie, include anyone else in those views. I don’t even expect anyone to agree with me. I don’t try and convince anyone else that I am right and they are wrong.
And I don’t raise my girls, or my son, to accept my word as gospel. Or to accept my choice as their only option.
We are very different, my girls and I. While my comfort lies in being dominated, in living my life according to the supposed “Natural Order”, while my path to happiness is heavily laden with servitute and submission, I do not think that any other chosen path is “unnatural” or a mistake.
My two girls’ path could be *anything*. My son’s path could be anything. What I make sure they get are options.
Take chores, for instance. In the households on that stupid tv show, the chores are divided up according to girl-chores and boy-chores. They are training their kids to follow that path. The Natural Order path, the path where boys do boy things and girls stay in the house and cook.
I don’t do that here with my kids. There is no differing between boy/girl work. B-man does laundry and dishes, the same as the girls’ do. And the girls can take out the trash and mow the lawn just like a boy.
There is no difference between my expectations from them either – at least not based on gender. I tailor my expectations, and how I relate to them, based on their individual personalities, needs, and wants.
If my son even so much as hints that he “deserves” to be waited on because he’s a boy, I’ll smack him down quicker than shit. Nobody “deserves” anything based solely on the genitalia swinging between your legs.
My girls don’t deserve to be servants merely because of their gender and my son doesn’t deserve to be dominant because of his.
Neither will my son have “squandered away” his supposed birthright to dominance should he choose to be an equal to his mate. There is no birthright to dominance and submission.
There is choice. There is personality. There is personal happiness.
What makes someone dominant? I have no idea. I don’t think it’s a penis and ball sack, but beyond that I really have no opinion. I spent enough time trying to figure out why I was a submissive that I no longer waste the time trying to figure out why anyone else is what they are.
The question that sparked the heated debate over on FL was essentially – “Since the primary role and path to fulfillment for a female is to serve a man”, [...] is it a waste of time (to educate) girls as they are raised?
The question itself, I thought, was ignorant. Quite frankly, it pissed me off. I abhor the very idea of “grooming” children toward a certain path. Denying them exposure and opportunity is, imo, appalling. Absolutely should not be tolerated or condoned or even entertained as semi-acceptable.
(At that point right there, and then further evidenced by subsequent posts from the same OP, that respect that I mentioned earlier that I’m supposed to show another dominant? Gone. No longer required. I have my own (and Master’s) pre-set, pre-defined acceptable standards of dominance, and that just violated all of them. Not only is that dominant no longer my superior, he’s beneath me – in character, in integrity, in values, and frankly, in brains. I will not speak to him like he’s entitled to my submission, I will not offer him niceties or curb my tongue based on his imagined position. I’ll speak to him like the ignorant ass that he is showing himself to be.)
If indeed, one believes in the natural order of things, that men are naturally dominant and women are naturally submissive, if that’s how things naturally occur, then there would be no reason not to educate your children and expose them to other ways of life. Because wouldn’t they “naturally” fall in line with the “natural order”?
I mean, let’s be serious here. I long to have lived in the Victorian era, when women were property, and options were limited and rights didn’t exist. I’d give my left tit to have a society in the present day where one could live outwardly with those principals. But I would never, ever wish that for my child. What makes it so alluring to me now is knowing what else is out there. It’s having been exposed, having *lived* as an independent woman. Why on earth would I want to take that away from someone? Why would anyone even consider narrowing another’s options?
I’m submissive because I choose to be. If I were submissive because I *had* to be, would I find it nearly as fulfilling? I don’t think so.
God. That topic just gets my goat.
….
….
I was asked “What gives a man the entitlement to require submission from a woman, if it is not his gender?”
My answer – Nothing. Absolutely nothing entitles a man to require, expect or deserve submission from a woman. Entitlement and birthright have no place in my world. I think it’s a ridiculous notion.
Master is dominant for reasons known only to him. In order for me to believe that dominance is a birthright entitled to him by his gender, I’d also have to believe that my own son is entitled to my submission (by birthright -ain’t gonna happen), that my doctor is entitled to my submission, that my brother is entitled to my submission, that my neighbor is –
Or worse, I’d have to believe that any male who isn’t an egotistical dominant ass is flawed in some way. Any male who didn’t want my submission was “unnatural”.
And I don’t believe that. I believe in personal choice, by both parties. I believe in mitigating circumstances that lead some people to D/s. I believe in pairing up with the person whose personality fits yours.
Why is he dominant? Because I submit to him. Without the other, we would be “nothing more than an egotistical arrogant self important bastard taking advantage of someone else who to stupid know better.”
Or worse, he’d be an egotistical ass thinking he deserves something that he doesn’t.
Personally, I think all doms are egotistical asses. I think it comes with the territory – a requirement, almost. I think the “flawed” part comes in when they con’t control it and begin thinking they can dominate outside of their little circle.
So I was admonished in the group for being disrespectful and rude (who? me? mouthy and opinionated? *le gasp!*), which wasn’t surprising because my hot-headed reply for that kind of dom to kiss my ass didn’t fall in with the “natural order” of female submissive-ness.
See where that sense of entitlement bites ya? I rather felt I was entitled to speak my mind since I’m not one of them “natural” submissive who falls to my knees at the sight of the big burly caveman and he felt he was entitled to lady-like, submissively-worded, gentle objections.
I guess we were both let down based on our misplaced sense of entitlement.
At which point I left the group. Not necessarily in an “I’m taking my ball and going home” huff, more of an “I don’t think I fit in here” kind of way.
Honestly, I really really do like and admire the moderators of that group. (Just not that particular OP) I have the utmost respect for them, as a couple.
I think she is just about the hottest thing on two legs.
I don’t have to agree with their views any more than they have to agree with mine. I have no interest in surrounding myself only with those who agree with me. I sincerely DO hope there hasn’t been damage done to what is, to me, an invaluable friendship.
But I really only bite my tongue for one person. I accept that my unwillingess to play by other’s rules may be costly. I accept that how we do this, the allowances he gives me, aren’t acceptable for others.
I guess I don’t know what else to say about it.
Tags: choice, kids, M/s rambles, women's lib
Uncategorized | kaya | 
Tuesday January 27th, 2009 9:16am
Wow – I got brought up entirely different to how i am now – was raised by a single mum who hated men, brought up to believe that as a woman i didnt need a man for anything and its true i dont, however i’ve chosen to be submissive but i’ve chosen to be submissive to the man i chose to, no one else. No one has the right to tell me to be submissive well other than my Master and i sure as well aint submissive at work where i’m a hard nosed bitch to any man lol.
My daughters are been raised to be respectful and polite not submissive it has to be a personal choice.
Very well written post. Thank you
vixen
http://vixenandmastert.blogspot.com/
You know what I think the “Natural Order” is? Some people have dominant personalities, and some people have submissive personalities. Submissive personalities will gravitate toward the dominant personalities.
Some people WISH that male dominance was the norm. It’s not. It’s just not. I myself want/need/insist on a dominant manly man, but …ya know… not all men are that. It’s just a case of people that try to live in the world of “I wish this is how it was” & calling it “the way it should be” because — well I don’t know why.
You’ve seen my posts in that thread. Meh.
Not wishing to educate a female is really stupid and short sighted.
Who seems to have always had the primary role in the home education of children? The more a female knows the more education gets passed on to the next generation. All you have to do is look at the products of the under educated family and it sticks out like a sore thumb. When is the last time an under 35 said ” Thank you” or ” excuse me” or any of the hundreds of other kind things that every human should ? Oh yes and just try to find a young person today that speaks in complete sentences of more than two sylible words. And this is with the best educated parents in history. Give me a break! end of rant.
Excuse me, Devil Dave, but I feel the need to respectfully disagree with your post. You see, there are quite a few of us “under 35s” who not only are fully capible of getting polysyllabic on your ass, but also resent that type of blanket stereotype. Not because it is not PC, but because it makes you sound like a twit should some eliquent 20 something come along and point out your grammatical insufficencies.
There are occassional moments when stereotypes are useful. That sort of sweeping insult never is.
Thank you for your time.
Cut it out. Both of you have misspellings in your posts.
=D
*snigger* nice one Sinn, you beat me to it
I was going to say that too! Two of you beat me to it
While, at 19, I rather resent your classification of how I am, I do recognize the validity of your point. In fact, it has often been a source of complaint to me as well. Many of the people you refer to did not have as scholarly a mother as mine, who did not graduate high school, but made sure that I learned, whether or not I used it for schooling.
In fact, I go beyond “thank you,” to “thank you kindly for ____”. No “excuse me”‘s here, only a “pardon me.”
Just because we are young does not mean that ALL of us are incompetent. Just because it SEEMS the norm does not mean it is.
In my life, dominant men SEEM to be the norm. I have a controlling stepfather, a controlling grandfather, a controlling brother and a Master. However, I realize that there are far more men NOT like them, whom I have not met. Seem does not mean is.
Love it! Thank you for expressing so well the thoughts that have tumbled around in my mind about dominance and submission. I really enjoyed your post! Thank you.
I had another thought. Those people that run around yelling “I’m a (dominant/man/superior/18 foot bandersnatch)!! You will respect my AUTHORITAY!” almost immediately push my NOT-submissive buttons. It’s like they’re trying too hard. The people I have known with the most genuine and natural dominance are usually very quiet about it — very indirect, possibly even somewhat subversive. They’re the ones that have such confidence in their own place, they don’t need to point it out to people.
I so agree with that!
RESPECT MY AUTHORITAY……LMAO…good one..Love South Park..big time.
S ~ How is it that I can see you in a cop jacket with 80′s style sunglasses on and a baton… although I think you’d hit above the shin bone. *giggles*
Thankyou for this post!
I totally agree with you on the issue of not grooming girls to be submissive, and allowing them to fulfil what ever education they wish to.
I have 4 daughters, and totally accept that they may not be submissive themselves. I am encouraging them to do well at school so that they can fulfil whatever career path they choose. If they want to be a high-power career woman great. If all they really want at the end of the day is to be a stay-at-home mum that is also great. As long as it is THEIR choice.
I have had a good education (I have a PhD), but I choose to be a 24/7 sub/slave and to stay at home, run my Master’s home and care for our children. That is MY choice.
And I am trying to be a good role-model for my daughters in that they can do whatever they choose to do. They can have an education, they can have a career if they wish, and they can also have a family if that is what they want. In short they can have it all.
I read the Fet-life thread but didn’t comment on it because I couldn’t see the point. You are never going to change the minds of those who are convinced that it is not worth educating women.
Although I did agree with one poster who said that it was a pity that some subjects (Home-ec for example) are not taught in schools as much…I feel that they should be. But they should be taught to both girls and boys equally.
i swear off Fetlife several times a week. :/
It makes me crazy, but i can’t seem to stay away. Sometimes i see some terrific stuff that really makes me think, but usually i see a bunch of people who don’t know their assholes from sinkholes.
i have this game i play. Whenever i see a slavier-than-thou reply to a post, i check the user-info to see A) if the couple live together B) If they identify as Gor and/or C) if they’ve been partnered for a very short time (or are completely unowned – lots of unowned slaves up in that joint talking about how to be the “perfect” slave, donchaknow). It is always (at least) one of those three.
Crazy-making. Srsly.
*applause*
I have a friend who is a slave/submissive and in other areas of her life (work, friends, etc) she is smart, confident and assertive. She is happier in her (2nd) marriage being a slave. I don’t necessarily understand it (this post gave me a little more insight which is why I lurk here), but she’s happier than I’ve ever seen her so I’m happy for her. To each his own. And I completely agree with you about those who feel entitled for the world to revolve around them.
Wow! Even if you believe that a woman’s purpose is only to serve a man, which I certainly do not, a well educated woman could serve him much better don’t you think?
Indeed, I myself would consider just about anyone in the world superior to that OP!
From a rather well-put-together short history:
[I removed references for easier reading, but they are on that page.]
NOT educating women is only about forcing all of them to take a submissive role. Say, like the Taliban f’r'instance. And other nice people like that. If BDSM is going to be “Risk Aware Consensual Kink” at all, women need to be aware of their options so that they can indeed make the choice to be submissive or not. Otherwise, it’s not very consenual, is it? This dipshit (pardon my French, which of course, being a woman I shouldn’t have learned anyway) is just having fantasies of going back to a time when “natural order” would have assured that every woman was starting with a bigger “handicap” than the OP. Which indicates to me that perhaps he is not at all certain of his postion as a dominant, and needs to take women down a notch so that he can feel superior more easily….
If you hadn’t left, I think the best arguement would have been that any truly dominant man will:
be able to dominate a woman regardless of whether she has graduated elementary school or gotten her second PhD
Have more use for an educated woman — that is she can make better conversation to himself or guests, be better able to organize his library or otherwise keep his home as he likes, and be better able to serve him as a whole, because she’s not a mindless automaton
will get more enjoyment from a woman who has been given every measure of equality and still chosen to submit to him — what a compliment! She doesn’t submit because she knows no other way, but simply because she can’t help but bow down before him because of his innate studliness!
I won’t bother to go join the group and post this. I had enough drama last week to last for the rest of 2009!
Drat … my effort to use the blockquote cite=”" tag failed. The excellent page quoted above is: http://www.cwrl.utexas.edu/~ulrich/femhist/education.shtml
Ugh — and apologies for the typos and my list not working either. Note to self: don’t try’n be fancy on someone else’s blog!
The list should look more like:
If you hadn’t left, I think the best arguement would have been that any truly dominant man will:
~ be able to dominate a woman regardless of whether she has graduated elementary school or gotten her second PhD
~ Have more use for an educated woman — that is she can make better conversation to himself or guests, be better able to organize his library or otherwise keep his home as he likes, and be better able to serve him as a whole, because she’s not a mindless automaton
~ will get more enjoyment from a woman who has been given every measure of equality and still chosen to submit to him — what a compliment! She doesn’t submit because she knows no other way, but simply because she can’t help but bow down before him because of his innate studliness!
Omg, I only read just the title of this post and already I KNOW what it’s going to be about!
*Goes back to read the post* lol
Wait, you meant that women aren’t naturally submissive to me??? Ah damn! Now I have to go and re-adjust my entire world view again!!!!! Crap. Kaya, this is why I read your blog, your great writing and viewpoints. I hereby nominate kaya for the US ambasador(SP) to the UN. Can see it now….”Just sit the fuck down, you Talabain shithead!”
Is it third-wave feminism, sex-positive feminism or free-market feminism where it is about exercising choice? Because whenever I try to discuss this–or read when others discuss this–with feminist it just doesn’t go over. Like a brick in a pool of water.
Yeah, I was watching “Lady Chatterly” (sp?) last night and noticed with some pining her submissiveness. I didn’t envy her sexual lockdown but did relate to her supportive role with her husband (who unfortunately was a dick). It’s great when submission works rather than negates you.
I’m totally not going to get into the natural order thing other than to say both Taylor and I believe it’s the way things *should* be but also realize that they no longer *are*.
I am going to touch on the whole respect thing. Cuz y’all know I can be a mouthy bitch and often spout off regardless of whom I’m speaking to.
Except when I actually *know* someone. Or dearly care about someone.
Those I know and care about get treated differently than strangers. And maybe that’s not good. I’m spending time thinking about it this week.
I do know that even when I disagree with them there are folks that I don’t get snotty with. Any of my friends, in general. Their dominant partners in particular. I’ll disagree with them quite strongly but I *do* watch how I say things. Mostly because I don’t want to hurt their feelings or disrespect those I *do* have respect for.
I dunno, kaya. Take, for example, when you and Scott were having your issues a bit back. You sent out an email that laid certain things out for certain people. You also talked here, very vaguely, about stuff. A lot of people made assumptions and judgments against Scott because of it. And you got pretty upset. You didn’t like people thinking badly of Scott nor did you like them talking badly about him.
I, personally, kept my mouth shut. Cuz I have mad respect for both you and Scott and didn’t want to insult anyone, hurt anyone or let my feelings get changed by what came down to gossip and speculation.
I know you. I know Scott. I would never, ever speak badly about him. I would never speak *to* him in the sarcastic and snotty way I often speak to others – no matter what was going on. Because despite some very different ideas and theories and practices between you and him and Taylor and I… I respect you both. And one difference of opinion or difference in how we play or whatever isn’t going to change that for me.
But talking to him like he’s an asshole sure might.
It’s a risk I don’t take. Ever.
Same goes with you and me. When we’ve disagreed on things I generally put my thoughts out there and leave it at that. I’m not going to get snarky with you over it, even though I might with others, cuz I GIVE a shit about you – and I generally don’t give much of a shit about most others.
Makes sense?
I adore you and Scott. I missed you guys greatly at the party this past weekend. I curse your move at least a few times a month.
But I’ll fully admit I spent a good portion of my Sunday in tears because something so fucking simple and subjective got so blown out of proportion.
And I’ll fully admit that the words that came out of my mouth most were “I would NEVER talk to Scott that way.”
*shrug*
Then again, that’s just me.
I *do* believe that if a person is dominant they deserve more respect from me than if they’re not. If I believe someone is dominant, if they live as a dominant and have shown me that they are what they say they are…
They get a level of respect I don’t give to those who haven’t shown it, those who I don’t know – even if they’re not MY dominant.
It’s just the way I’m wired.
And since everyone isn’t me all I can do is realize that, accept who others are and move on. So I got my feelings hurt. I’ll live.
Love you guys muchly.
You never did address how you were going to deal with the issues of women as vice president should McCain have won. I would be willing to speculate that your family leans toward the right in voting, based on what you have said in the past (and though I know you vote for who your Master tells you to vote for, you have expressed opinions in the past about females in office). so I guess I was curious about how you might rectify the idea that if anything happened to McCain (and clearly, with that medical history, it was more than possible that Palin would have to step in at one point or another), how would you feel electing McCain knowing that it would surely lead to a woman in that supreme position of authority, moreover, that she would constantly be in the second highest position of authority? Did Obama become more appealing?
I am in love with the D/s relationship simply for the fact that it is my *choice* and because that is part of the natural chemistry between *me and Beast*. Being the mother of two daughters I’ve always had the take parenting that you should teach your children about choices/options in all aspects of life. It truly disturbs me when parents try to mold their children into their ideals.
Well said…
I don’t believe in traditional gender roles and I don’t believe the women’s movement brought down the structure of society. For the last two years I lived in Sweden, I have seen a male cat stay with the kittens while the mother was out. It proves that gender roles do not exist in nature.
I also believe that one’s nature of being dominant, submissive, or a good portion of both are based on personality rather than gender.
There are men who would have women know nothing but servitude. Then there are men who would have a woman who is vibrant, educated, eloquent, gregarious, talented, charismatic and possibly even very independent and *gasp* assertive in the rest of her life to be his sub. In my *personal* opinion an under-educated woman groomed for a life of servitude is like a dog, horse or ox, basically the classic “dumb animal” trained to do tasks. An accomplished woman who submits to a man who is otherwise someone she would consider her equal seems more valuable to me, and requires MORE out of a Master than a schlong.
$.02
Fantastic post, kaya.
I gotta say I agree with your Master when he says woman are lousy drivers. However, my choice of word is “shitty.” Whenever I see (or have to avoid) a driver who is driving badly/doing something stupid/nearly causing an accident, 9 times out of 10 the driver has been female. I always check. I’m not even exaggerating. Will you reveal what FL group you are referring to? I’d like to read that particular thread.
Oh, and I wouldn’t want a female president, either. And, yeah, I tend to be a misogynistic female.
Never mind, I found it.
I think it’s important to be who you are. And the more options you see growing up, the more ideas you have about who you can be. Sometimes our options get shut down early by things we can’t help; I’m never going to run a 5K after that car wreck, the foot won’t take the training, let alone the race. But it’s one of the few sins I believe in to limit options in people who have the world before them.
I’ve been a dominant personality for years and years. It’s only been recently that I took the step of deciding to be dominant in terms of lifestyle/WIITWD usage. People ask, knowing I’m married to another dominant, how we could possibly ever get along. Because dominant doesn’t equal asshole. Because dominant doesn’t equal “can’t talk it out”. And at least once a day one of us makes a unilateral decision for both of us, and the other is fine with it. My husband and I have very few boundaries between us, anyway, and that is just the way we do things.
Kaya,
A whole lot of the “women should be submissive in general” stuff comes from religion. I know that Christianity has commands for wives to submit to their husbands (though this is most definately NOT in the D/s sense). There are even indications that the bible calls for women to be submissive within the church, in general (women should not teach in church, head coverings as an expressionm of submission). It’s hard to recitify any of this with the nmodern women’s movement and the view of women as equal partners in marriage, but it can be done. You just have to have an open mind (oh, now I’ve done it).
As was explained to me in a bible study, the submitting to the husband is one of authority. Someone has to have the final say in a marriage, and in Christianity, that someone is the husband. It’s also protective in a spiritual sense. If a wife submits to her hsuband in sprirtual matters, she’s covered, as it were.By following his lead, the wife is obeying God. There certainly isn’t a lack of strong women in the old and new testements. Deberah delivered Isreal from their oppressor by driving a tent spike through his head while he slept. Only one appostle was at the foot of the cross while three women were (Mary, his mother, Mary Magdeline and John’s mother). The bible has bothing against strong women doing what is right. This idea that the bible teaches all women should be subservient to all men is a perversion perpetrated by weak men afraid of being shown up.
If I have any issue with the women’s lib movement, it is likely rooted in personal experience. I have NEVER encountered a self identified women’s lib advocate who didn’t cheer equal rights for women and the ability to choose their path, who didn’t in the next breath denigrate any woman who would have the audacity to demean all women everywhere by “choosing” to be a housewife. I’m not exagerating. No woman calling herself a women’s libber has acknowledged that stay at home mom and wife was just as legitimate a choice as a career. So I tend to see the women’s movement like unions these days: they accomplished a lot of good, but now it’s purpose is to sustain itself indefinately.
As for you kaya, I have a hard time seeing you submitting to anyone but Scott. In fact, of anyone who tries to impose on you like that, “I pity the fool!”
Dave
PS bonus pionts if you can place the quote.
Dave,
I often identify myself as a feminist and I fully value my choices as a woman. I understand that I can choose to be a career woman or a housewife (with many variations and other choices between) and I respect both positions equally. I would never think that a woman who chooses to stay at home demeans the entire female sex. I just wanted you to know there are some of us out here…granted not enough….but we are here! Yay for us!
Anon,
I knew there had to be someone out there. Ironically, I even have met women who deny being feminist because “feminism rejects mother as a viable occupation.” I think every organization is in trouble when the extremists get control of it. Down with all extremists! Er, ah, never mind.
Dave
Dave, I wonder how many feminists you know. Most of the women I know identify as feminist, yet I can’t think of a single one who would have a problem with someone who would choose to stay home and take care of children, if they could work that out. Many feminists that I know do stay home with their kids. Others who don’t have kids would love to stay home if they could afford it, and if their partners agreed to it. Maybe some of the housewives that you know are feminists, but you just don’t know it.
BTW, I haven’t heard anyone seriously use the expression “women’s libbers” since the mid-1970s. (Yes, around thee time that Mr T was on TV — there’s your quote). Maybe it’s a regional thing?
Lee,
That may well be the case. I honestly try to avoid the subject altogether these days. Most of my exposure has been on campus, where things can get a little radical. It’s funny, but I’ve never heard a mother/housewife discourage their kids from seeking a career if they wanted, but I hve heard career women discourage their daughters from being housewives (honey, don’t limit yourself like that kind of comments). And I have personally witnessed a teacher telling her students that being a mother was NOT an acceptable subject for “draw a picture of what you want to do when you grow up” assignment. I was in her class on an observation. When I asked about it after school was out, she said, “There’s no challenge, after all, anyone can be a mother and a housewife. It’s not like you have to be bright. I want my kids to expand their horizens.”
As for the women’s lib thing, no, not regional, just me. I don’t think my slang has changed much in the last 30 years. I still use “cool,” “neat,” and “groovy” in real life conversation.
Dave
I guess I don’t see the problem with teachers or parents encouraging girls to think in terms of having a career (not to mention encouraging their intellectual interests). It’s great to raise kids and take care of your family. If you can manage it economically, and it’s your thing, why not do it full time? But arrangements can change. Divorces happen. Husbands can die, or lose their jobs. In that case, shouldn’t women make sure that they have options for themselves? And having options begins with being encouraged at a young to think about careers. It doesn’t preclude motherhood at all.
And in fact, the need for women having options was sort of the topic of this original post.
Can you imagine the reaction of the other wife reading the manual if Kaya did go on Wife Swap…
“Tack bra?”
“Under the desk?”
“Put a pot scrubber where?”
Heee, just what I was thinking!
omg, that’s funny!
I followed that thread and most of the time my fingers were twitching. Good on you for standing up in what you believe in and saying what was on your mind. I didn’t see it as disrespectful.
My son is not brought up to be naturally dominant. It’s not my place to do so, I gave birth to him that’s it, his personality “he” owns. No dominant or any other person is gioing to dictate to him how he should feel or act. As far as dominance moulding children …. my mouth is ready to run off.
As far as a woman not having the option of an education in this day and age. Absolututintootin wrong! And as far as being all subbie and nice to anyone else but the Dom I am with … pffftt.
Hmmppfff I was so ready to do a post but you said it all for me x
Boy you’re on a tear today! Good for you – I agree 100%. Guess I’ll never be a good dom since I’m not (or at least I try not to be) egotistical.
- Don
P.S. I’m “snow bound” today (less than 6 inches here on Long Island) – by choice.
I tried to stay respectful on that thread but it was made clear that there was to be no room for opposing views. I don’t have much time for nor can I suffer a stranger on the internet telling me that I am in conflict with my beliefs or worse…playacting at them because they don’t perfectly match his.
I am old enough to remember watching “The Little Rascals” re runs. Spankie & Alfalfa’s HeMan Woman Haters Club was threatened by Alfalfa’s interest with the smart and savvy Darla. That was 70 years ago.
And… Though I firmly believe all persons should know how to cook and take care of their own home… I don’t believe that in this day and age, we need to be using precious resources in the schools to be teaching it. Is there not plenty of opportunities for on the job training while growing up. I taught my son how to take care of himself…it’s a life skill. Whether he chooses to use those skills or find someone to do them for him, is “his choice”
God damn…it’s a nudgy subject isn’t it.
Mom???? You read blogs??? LOL, seriously you sound like my Mom, who taught me to open doors for women, say please, thank you and may I, wash, dry and iron my clothes, clean the entire house top to bottom, do a budget, plan meals for the week, and tons of other stuff that “women” were made to do when she grew up, not men. I still do all of that stuff, and have never felt that women were, by not having a penis, made by God to be my house slave. To this day, I know that if I was to dis-respect a working women, my Mom would probably slap my head off. Mean little old Southern lady, but I love her greatly.
good grief….i saw your post and my heart stopped a beat… i thought my son found me…lol
Great post! This is exactly why I didn’t fit well into the Gorean community on the long term. I just never bought the whole “natural order” argument. I did like all the strictness and protocols and such. I was there specifically to learn about those things, but always the natural order stuff came up.
I think it’s HOT in fantasy. I often fantasize about being raised from birth to be a slave. Being isolated, manipulated, molded, shaped into what “they” wanted me to be. But that’s my fantasy, not someone else’s. Obviously, it still happens whether I like it or not. People do all sorts of stupid things with their kids. However, society isn’t set up to support their “ideal”. So unless they are living on some compound where they can control everything about the society their children are growing up in, it’s unlikely to be effective in the long run.
It saddens me to think that a parent would choose to stunt their child in that way. And it is a deliberate stunting. I read not long ago about a guy who was given an orbital lobotomy when he was a child to change his personality. Would these people support lobotomizing their girls also if it killed their curiosity and will? I think some of them would, and that’s pretty sad.
As far as being a homemaker and full time parent, I see either/both as viable and important jobs for any gender. Men can and should have just as much input in the raising of their children as women. Those who opt out of that are missing out on something very important, but that’s their choice too.
Have been thinking on this “natural order” thingie piece of crap. You can not find in nature a consistent example of it. Only in some cheap badly written mock pron books does it exist,and yes I am talking about that Gor crap. I do not believe in it. In nature you will find example after example of a female based society, one such is elephants. And I pity the poor fool who tells me sister she is less than he is. One man tried, and then tried to rape her. He did the next 10 years in prison in a wheelchair. At 5-3, she is one mean woman, who has two black belts, one in judo and one in karate. And she is flat meaner than me. Men are superior? Not unless they earn it. Not by birth, but by their worth.
Not by birth, but by worth.
I *really really* like that. It has a ring to it, don’t it?
That was me, not The Boss.