Reflection
What are all y’alls thoughts on the notion of a slaves/property/whatevers actions being a reflection on the Master/Owner/whatever?
I haven’t had enough coffee to really articulate why I think what I think, all I can say is that I think the notion is bunk.
That could just be because I’m naturally sort of a bitch, and I’m really good at it, and I don’t want to have to give that up if I truly am “making him look bad”.
Also, he just doesn’t care. So, you know, that helps.
He and I both think we stand alone in our actions. My actions reflect on me, his actions reflect on him. He has no interest (at this moment. It’s always subject to change on a whim of his) in controlling that side of me. In fact, he likes it. He likes my spirit, my wit (or lack thereof), my sarcasm and my mouthiness. That other people are sometimes on the receiving end of said wit (and by wit I mean snark, tyvm) is, for him, a bonus. It means I’m leaving him alone for a bit. 
Although I have to admit that there have been times when I’ve witnessed some unruly slave’s behavior and have thought to myself “Jesus. I can’t believe he lets her act like that!” which completely does not align with my previous statements.
So what do you all think? “Stand alone” or “mirror mirror, on the wall”?
Uncategorized | kaya | 
Thursday March 4th, 2010 8:15am
How about a healthy balance between the two?
niya´s last blog ..Coming together
How so? Explain, please.
Also- wtf is wrong with fet? My one day to sit and bother everyone there and the site goes down? I’ll not have it, I tell you.
Right, so… I tried to comment and it got REALLY long. Embarrassingly so. I should email you. I suck at succinct.
~Chloe
Chloe´s last blog ..I have a request…
I say post it anyway. I’m looking for distraction from laundry.
I think it’s actually more in the eye of the beholder- because people will make their judgements regardless of how I feel (which is that I should be the only one to blame for my actions) In a strange kink crowd, particularly one that is high protocol, I assume people will judge Sir based upon my actions- it’s what they do. But in a more relaxed gathering (re our local munch or among vanilla friends) I know they will attribute my actions to me because they are either aware of our personal dynamic or completely oblivious; in either case they don’t have to assume that we have the exact same protocol as another person and therefore my brattiness is a bad refection on Sir’s “training”
Yeah! That’s what I think too. And I actually do curb my mouth on the occasion that we are in that high protocol setting because I KNOW people are going to judge him based on me. And, in fact, he requires that I’m differently behaved in those settings.
In other, more relaxed settings, we have more fun with the brat-tendencies.
Hm… I AM a fan of being an uppity bitch….but at the same time, I’m still my owner’s responsibility in addition to my own. An ability to judge intent is also key. Like “bitch you shouldn’t be a bitch because you were a bratty slave and got punished” as opposed to “hee, she’s simpering. Aw man, that’s not gonna help at all, but I’ll play along with it”
HouseWench´s last blog ..
I agree that intent matters.
What about when that bitchiness is directed at others? No matter what the intent is, or, especially, if the intent is negative? Are you more inclined to judge the owner as responsible for it or the slave?
I think it is on a situation by situation basis. I think the default should be polite, but there are some people whose very PRESENCE raises my hackles. If that intent is negative and you’re not in a vanilla setting, I’d totally be justified in getting smacked. I’ll look down on the slave far more than I will the owner, because chances are he’ll deal with it if it is a continual problem. If you’re like that around EVERYONE, then I’d wrinkle my nose a little. If you’re like that around individual people, well… Everyone has someone like that
When around kinksters in-person, I try to behave myself because I think they’ll see my behavior as a reflection on him.
On the Internet, if I really stepped out of line and went off on someone who didn’t deserve it, he’d probably be pissed. That hasn’t happened, yet, though people have tried to get me into trouble for things I didn’t say or do. He thinks it’s amusing when I snap at trolls.
My Sir needs me to be a reflection of him when he has people over for business. I do the whole dress up and play hostess (which I do actually like). But even without the high protocol thing I still try to reflect his values because in the end, they are mine. I can disagree (but I rarely do). But disagreeing and misbehaving are two different things.
M’s of the mind that all of my behavior reflects on Him. He’s my owner. He trained me. If I’m a bitch to someone I shouldn’t be, it makes Him look bad. But likewise, if I maintain some decorum of respect, and express myself intelligently, that makes Him look good. It shows He’s done well training me.
Some people don’t buy into that. I’m trained to believe it. To be honest, I don’t remember what I thought about that concept before being trained.
He likes my personality. He likes that I can gut people with my tongue when the need calls for it. And He likes that He’s trained me to know when it’s appropriate and when it’s best left alone. That He’s modified my behavior to fit the decorum He’d like His property maintain.
~shrug~ Variety is the spice of life, I guess.
Rayne´s last blog ..Spring and Gratitude
So, um, i’m still trying to figure out howmuch sassy is too much sassy…since Sir and i are not out in public per se (as we don’t cohabit)..other than walking through the lobby of the hotel…it’s a non-issue. A more important question is “How much brattiness can a subbie bear to take?”
I was punished a wee bit (i didn’t know you could torture a clit by playing with it for like, fucking forever, or how bad-good-bad forced orgasming is….) on our last week for disobeying Him. And i plan on pushing the envelope further on our next meet. I guess i’m wondering when enough is enough is enough….and i’m also guessing it depends on the day, the mood of ones owner, the cycle of the moon…basically on da Bosses whim. Am i correct? And does knowing this make you bratty during a scene anyway?
nilla
nilla´s last blog ..HNT Hurt So Good 3/4/10
I think that it’s similar to this. You know how when your kids are small, you want them to behave at the grocery store so that everyone isn’t looking at you, judging how good of a mother you are by whether or not your kids are poking holes in the cellopacks in the butchery? That’s the concept people try to assign to the O/p situation sometimes. You don’t want them running around with sticky snotty faces and soiled clothes and nappies for the same reason.
That works for KIDS… but not adults.
I think generally, if you make yourself look like a fool when you’re out with someone, most people are going to look at your grown up ass as an individual and wonder why you’re making yourself look the fool. They might wonder why the other person is WITH you, but they won’t blame THEM for your behavior. I think as adults, we own our behaviors and decisions as far as the public is concerned.
As much as some might like to believe that we are a reflection of our owners and when we act terrible, people look at our owners and say “tut tut, he oughta get a handle on that girl”, it’s really more “tut tut, why is he putting up with that foolish thing.” Our actions are our own and reflect back on US and on how we choose to behave as individuals.
That said, some folks DO enter the O/p M/s D/s ?/? lifestyles with an idea that they’ll be able to “give up control” of their actions, which they translate as “giving up responsibility” for their actions.
At least that’s my take on it. Now I do consider D. a reflection of my tastes, choices, and standards as he does me. That means when people look at me, he wants them to know why he chose me and why we’re together. I want the same, but that has nothing to do with O/p and a lot to do with home training, upbringing, and not being allowed to run around in butcheries poking holes in cellopacks when we were tots.
Kitten´s last blog ..Unexpected Acceptances
In some situations the Master is obviously exerting control and as such the resultant slave behaviour is His will and reflects directly on Him.
Other times the slave’s behavior is arising from their character and as such truly reflects on the Master only in as much as He has molded that character.
The real issue in this case becomes the judgement of others of His “need” to, and success (or lack thereof) modifying the behaviour. That judgement comes from people that a) expect the Master to “fix” his slave’s behaviour issue, and b) is coloured by the preceived difficult of the task. A Master of a strong bratty slave who is obviously a handfull gets more slack than a Master who demonstrates effective control but simply allows bad behaviour.
Personally I don’t usually care much for what other people think of me – rather I have a code of how I treat others which is easy enough to follow and usually avoids issues in the first place – about the only time we have problems is if she perceives some disrespect for me and goes into attack mode where I would shrug it off (usually as confirming a low opinion of the source of the insult.)
That said, I do enjoy showing her off and take satifaction from the fact she is mine. A grave personality flaw to feed off the envy of others, and perhaps a conceit that her worth increases my measure but I guess that this is an admission I do believe she reflects (well) on me.
I think the relevant question is, “Does He care?” If He doesn’t care how you behave, whether you are polite, etc., then you have free reign. When and where He cares, you should too.
Someone used the example of badly behaved children reflecting on their parents, and I’d go with that except that I raised the ultimate badly behaved child, and I KNOW, absolutely, that her behavior was not about me.
The Top side of any power based relationship is going to have areas where they choose to apply their leverage, and other places where it just doesn’t matter to them. Yours doesn’t get involved in this place with you — mine does. They are different. We are not. If yours cared, I believe you would comply with His wishes. It’s really pretty simple.
swan
swan´s last blog ..What is Sexual Submission?
I do feel that my boys’ actions do reflect upward. Mostly, though, I don’t tend to attract bitchy subs. I tend to attract the anxious type who find that the worst thing in the world to contemplate is Mistress being disappointed in them. So their social behavior is pretty well self-policed.
I don’t consider keeping your integrity and dignity intact in the face of verbal or physical assault to be “bitchy” though. Sometimes bitchiness is necessary in life. The trick is knowing when to use it, and when to simply let people figure out that the person is full of bullshit by the smell.
It matters – because the two of you are together, it is in itself a statement, that one some level you have the same core values, otherwise you would not be together right? Vanilla or kink, we are a reflection of our partner. If during the course of a relationship things start to shift, i.e. values change, you feel it. All of a sudden behavior that you would not have thought twice about a year ago starts to make your ass twitch, toes curl. We are a reflection of those we share time with…particularly those who we have a marriage or M/s etc relationship with….
so, skipping most of the other replies, cause I’m tired and the kids are driving me NUTS…
I agree with niya about a balance of the two.
I am most certainly my own person. Beloved likes to KNOW about who I talk to, where I go…but he certainly doesn’t control it. *wry smile* He doesn’t have time for that bullshit, and he likes my pixie ways.
However, when we are out together in lifestyle company, I am expected to be respectful and attentive. Different from *submissive*, though…I am having to puzzle out the balance between snarky and respectful.
*shrug* But you know, that’s what it is between US. What works between other M/s or O/p couples is not for me to worry about. *wink*
pixie´s last blog ..When?
oh hai pixie!!!
Leigh Ann´s last blog ..
personally- i think it’s situational.
if you are in a “high protocol” situation (which is a whole other post in and of itself) then yes, your actions reflect your training.
But usually- not. people in the lifestyle here know that i’m a smart ass and a strong personality. But i’m courteous to everyone because personally I believe that you are to be nice until it’s time not to be nice. Not for him, for me.
Granted that whole- if a sub offends me, i’m going straight to her Dom/Master/dickhead/whatever pisses me off to no end. I am the type of person that if you have a problem with me, take it up with me. Don’t go behind my back.
But again- in my opinion it’s totally situational.
Leigh Ann´s last blog ..
Having gone to the Toronto pride/leather street festival the year before last and receiving a compliment from a random passerby and their pet on the behaviour of my “pets and or subs” I think it does reflect on the Dominant, especially when it comes to those in this lifestyle who you may not know.
When it comes to friends and those that know you, I think it more reflects on the s-type themselves although in excess it can reflect on both as a couple or on the whole family.
Interesting note: When I received the compliment, only one of the three they were mentioning was my slave. The other two were a brother to my slave and his girlfriend who were new and very nervous so they stayed close, kept their mouths shut and their hands to themselves. Worked out pretty well!
Rayne said it well … “to know when it’s appropriate and when it’s best left alone” … if HE decides you are going to pull your head in and quit it then so be it. I’m not on a leash atm but I do have people who I do answer to, I have free reign to use my intelligence to know the difference and when I am being a twat I’m told in no uncertain terms. Luckily my brattiness at times is appreciated in the right situations. Other times I know when to shut the hell up. Don’t worry I see stuff and think “What the hell?!?!?!”
vanimp´s last blog ..Nightscapes ~ Microfantasy Monday