“No object is so beautiful that, under certain conditions, it will not look ugly.”
It seems like people still want to believe that we’re a normal family, playing at submission and dominance. That, you know, sure, it’s cute and fun to spank and order me around for a bit, but when things get serious he’s obligated somehow to treat me as an equal. That underneath it all we don’t really do this whole Boss/cunt thang, except to get our rocks off.
Someone commented awhile back, asking why it has to be all or nothing.
Because it does.
If it isn’t – it’s not good enough. Not for me and not for him. That’s not a value judgment against how anyone else does it, I only know how it works for us. It is, always has been and always will be, a matter of He says, I do. Or I leave. I either submit or I don’t, that choice is mine, of course, but to not submit means to end the relationship because our relationship is not one based on equals or on negotiation or partnership. It’s one based on dominance and submission.
But he’s not only going to be asking me to submit to a beating or to suck his dick or to shovel the driveway.
It’s not always pretty. Slavery isn’t pretty, submission isn’t pretty, and if it always has to be, if that’s the only way it sits comfortable for someone – well, I’m probably not the person to be reading.
I know that I’ve hinted around to the Big Limit that I smacked against having something to do with the kids. I know I presented it as me standing up for the noble cause of motherhood.
I’m, perhaps, not nearly as noble as I tried to be. But neither is he an ogre.
It was interesting, I thought, that when I was detailing having hit a limit, people were quick to reassure me that finding a limit where I previously thought I had none was a-okay, normal and expected. But when it came time to say that perhaps it wasn’t MY limit so much as HIM finding a limit, people were pretty quick to judge that that is not allowed on his part. I heard how he knew what he was getting into when it started and he can’t back out now and that’s not right and blah blah blah –
But why don’t those same sentiments apply to me? I knew what I was getting into with as much possible forethought as he did.
It’s common, I’ve noticed, to extend sympathy and understanding to the submissive party of a relationship in crisis, yet people condemn, without trial or even knowledge of the issues, the dominant party. Even though those same people will say that doms aren’t Gods, doms are human, doms make mistakes. Apparently those mistake only extend as far as a stray whip strike?
Could he not have realized, some 5 years later, that taking on a woman and her 3 kids was a lot more involved than he thought? Can he not then say, look, I’m in this for the long haul with you but there have to be some limitations because I’m not an endless well of money? I’m not a brick wall of support? I’m human and tired and I need to have some sort of end in sight?
Our kids can live here until they are 30 for all he cares, as long as they are making an effort to improve themselves. Go to work or go to school and the door is open for as long as it’s needed. But he’s not a free ride for anyone. That’s not a dominant stance, it’s a reasonable and healthy parental stance.
Jes quit school and has made no effort to find even a part-time job at McDonalds. And now she’s pregnant.
She can stay here and we’ll happily help her with anything she needs *as long as* she makes some effort to improve her situation.
What she wants is to have us rent her an apartment in another state where the baby’s daddy lives, give her the car and help her pay for the baby, so she can play house with her boyfriend; who, btw, has another baby on the way with a different girl.
He’s 17 and has no job with two kids on the way. Jes’ll be 17 soon, has no job and no education.
We argued and things were said that were taken out of context. I didn’t give him the chance to explain himself because I complicated the issue by reacting so quickly (taking off my collar and saying I was leaving), and once that was out there, the focus of Jes and what to do about her was lost.
I had a knee-jerk reaction to Master’s refusal to go along with Jes’s plan. I resented that because he controls the purse strings, I couldn’t decide on my own to go along with Jes’s plan. I immediately, and probably correctly, assumed that if I don’t give her what she wants, I’ll never see that baby. Jes is a good manipulator and I’m an easy target. I also thought there was no way in hell I’d not adopt that baby if Jes wants to go that route.
What Master is saying isn’t unreasonable. If she wants to stay here, we’ll support her 100%. He’ll support her child. But she has to either go back to school or look for a job (within reasonable expectations for her health and abilities). She’s going to be a mother, she’s no longer got the luxury of just being a confused teenager. Time to step up and pay the piper.
But if she wants to go, if she wants to play grown-up, then she’s on her own. I will “abandon” her to the bed she made. And I (probably) cannot adopt it. I am struggling, still, with knowing that. Even though I know there are a hundred factors that could change it, accepting that no matter what, it’s not a decision I’ll get to make is hard.
~sigh~
It’s far more complicated and detailed than this, but you’d all have to come live here to get the whole of it. You’d have to know Jes to even come close to understanding most of it.
……
I’m getting off track.
If I am allowed, with open-arm acceptance, to have my limits, then so is he. If I’m cheered when I draw a line in the sand, let’s not boo him when he does the same.
It’s just not nice. It’s not fair.
Well. I keep thinking I should say more, try some other way of wording it to pretty it up or something, but this is it. These are the curveballs that life throws you and you do the best you can with them. Not beautiful, not always.
Tags: jes, limits, M/s rambles, mending, reality
Uncategorized | kaya | 
Thursday December 11th, 2008 8:59am
Yet another great, reflective post. Thank you. One very nosy thought: why not terminate the pregnancy? It seems like that would create more space for Jes to improve her situation.
We’re pro-life. We always have been. Of course, legally, it’s her choice to make.
You really amaze me. You are incredibly strong, and… I don’t know… I don’t know if I’d have the guts to share the things you do. Hell, my car got repossessed today and I don’t want to tell ANYONE, never mind the internet at large. (Uh, oops?)
I have the feeling your take on it would be that it “doesn’t” take guts… (You seem dismissive of some compliments, forgive me if that’s not the case here.) But, neener neener, you can’t stop me from thinking you’ve got ‘em!
Thank you SO much for being here.
In thanks, I’m going to attempt to keep my rambling opinions to myself. (:
~Chloe
I had a car get repossessed once too. Life sure can be a big ball of suck sometimes. :-(
“dismissive of compliments”. I don’t mean to be? I sure appreciate compliments!
I really hadn’t planned on sharing all of this (but then I never do plan it) but it bothered me more that people were coming to the wrong conclusion. Maybe it shouldn’t have but, he’s a good guy.
I hope you don’t ramble to yourself. People will think you’re strange. ;-)
Oh! I didn’t mean dismissive in a bad way… Just a modest way. You rock my socks off, though. ;)
And I just thought I’d add…
I thought Jes was pregnant and Scott was giving her an ultimatum – shape up or ship out. I guess I wasn’t that far off. And everyone keeps saying if he wanted to kick her out, that “would have been unreasonable.”
I feel slightly out of the majority saying this… But I just never thought it was unreasonable. I never thought a bad thought about Scott, actually. Nor did I think a bad thought about you.
I thought: two different people, one big goal, two different approaches, one big mess.
I’m what I call “naturally submissive” and by that I mean I don’t do things like live some corporate life, kickin’ ass and takin’ names. I’m comfortable in service, in many aspects of my life.
And I KNOW that when it comes to childcare (I am not a mother, yet, but I spent about 5 years of my life being a live-in nanny), I can let submissive tendencies slip into permissive parenting styles. If and when I do have kids, I know it’s going to take a lot of sacrifices on my part to present a unified parenting front with my Master. But that’s what sacrifice is, right? Giving up something good for something better.
And when it comes down to it, I would have to trust that my Master would want nothing but a good life, and a successful life, for our children. So I’d just have to fight the “protect the kids at all costs” instincts, and remind myself of the “trust him” instincts. Because he is a good man and I trust him with my everything. (I just might need reminding of that sometimes.)
Things would end up in shambles if I had kids and he wasn’t there, because I (logically) know permissive parenting does the kids no favors. At all. It’s tough to watch them fall and skin their knees when they’re learning to walk, but it’s a WHOLE lot better than supporting them so much that when it comes time for them to run, their muscles are atrophied and they fall and smash their faces.
In any case… You strike me as a great woman, wife, and mother. And Scott strikes me as a really, incredibly good man all around.
I’ve said I’m cheering you on, but I’m also cheering him on. You are both fantastic, and you are spectacular together. As my Master is fond of saying, when two right people come together, one plus one can equal a million.
(I think I’ve rambled quite enough.)
You are so right; he gets cheered on by this submissive! It will NOT be easy for you, though . . . and he either. GOOD luck in dealing with her and the situation. Never had kids, but my girlfriends ALWAYS said: boys are SO much easier.
Hugs, bev
My son is only 13, but from infancy on up I’ve found him to be MUCH easier to raise than either of the girls. Boys are easier! (so far)
And thanks for the cheer for him. He deserves it. :-)
WOW. I had a hunch that Jess was preggo and that it prob. made this situation as it were. Oddly enough in my own life my very best friend/”sister” at the age of 30 still acted like she was 16. She got involved with a dude 10 years younger and of course got pregnant. They both stomped around and pouted like little kids. The father still has yet to get a job. She made the choice to keep the baby and he was born early b/c they were so poor that her abilities to give the best prenatal care were minimal. As much as I wanted to reach out and do all that I could, I knew I couldn’t do squat, that it was all her. After the baby was born she went off the deep end and cut off every single person who was close to her. If we didn’t agree with her ways and her tantrums about how to do things and when, then we weren’t really friends.
What I’m getting at: Jess really does need this approach so that she won’t be 30 and still stuck as a teen. I whole heartedly agree with how you reacted and as a mother how you want to nuture her and give her all the best. However I applaud you for thinking about this with all the wisdom you have. She will be a better person. You may have to give her tough love, when she does grow up and whenever she looks at life through an adult’s eyes, one day she will thank you both. I wish you all the strength of the world. This could happen to any family. I worry about it with my stepdaughter (she’s not so brite and can often be influenced by others too easily). You have a wonderful heart and you will get through this.
Has Jes considered just plain adoption? (not necc. to you?) Perhaps you should take her on a “shopping” spree, don’t spend but make her make a list of everything she would have to get every month and to see what the cost of raising a child would be. Then take her to a woman’s shelter where she can see all the women who have nothing and to illustrate just how drastic her life can go from here.
Best wishes.
I know she needs it. But to see your child unhappy, to watch them need something – it’s heartbreaking.
I don’t like having to do the “tough love” approach, even for something as minor as not doing chores = no allowance = no new toys. I cave, always, and this is much bigger than allowance and chores.
I know it’s for her betterment. I do. I just wish it were easier. And, too, I wish (sometimes) that it were my decision to make on whether to do or how to do it –
Bah. I talk myself in circles.
Thanks for the ideas for shopping and such. I think those are good ideas.
Perhaps something your Master is particularly good at is helping you get through the things you normally cave on.
Wow. I commend you both. I would have had the same knee-jerk reaction but would have eventually agreed with him.
I never posted about it, but I put my son on probation through the state, then we went to court and was willing to send him to the boys home until he was 18. We, he and i, have had a very rough year and I love him BUT there are things that I won’t tolerate in my house. NO child of mine is going to cuss me, they can cuss but not cuss me. There are rules to living in my house and if you are going to throw your life away, I am going to do everything possible to stop you. That is my job as him mom.
I got the impression that one of the girls was pregnant but didn’t want to just “put it out there”.
I have told all my girls that if they get pregnant they will work and finish school/college and while I will help – I am NOT raising their child.
It won’t be easy and you will probably go through more hurt than you think possible but remember, Scott is there for you, and if you need me, so am I.
Hugs, Sable
That you reach out to me when you are struggling yourself is amazing of you. Thank you.
I hope you know it’s a reciprocating offer from me too. I can’t do a whole lot to help, except to listen if you want an ear.
God bless you all! I hope your daughter decides, sooner rather than later, to stay with the people she can count on to keep her and her baby safe.
I hope she does too. It’ll break my heart if she doesn’t. But i don’t expect her to. :(
*peeks in out of lurkerdom* That’s what I figured had happened. I can see where both of you are coming from, and I can understand the knee jerk reactions. I hope you all can come to an agreement that works for everyone… and that Jes will get her head out of her ass, one day. (No offense. I’m 20, pregnant, with a high school education, but I’m working my butt off and looking for another job. I know I still have a lot of growing up to do in the coming months.)
I think about how hard it’s going to be for her. Hell, I was 21, married and working when I had her and it was STILL hard. She has such a romantic, idealistic idea of what it’s going to be like. I hurt for the realizations she’s going to have to make. I want to protect her from them.
If she has a romantic, idealistic idea of what living with her boyfriend will be like, then pat yourself on the back, because she’s got that idea somehow from you (and your Master, most likely). She’s seen a happy couple playing house together with their children – successfully. Sure, she’s seen conflict too and probably been at odds with both of you many times, but at the end of the day if she thinks this picture looks appealing it’s because she’s seen it work. Small wonder she thinks she can do the same! (It will occur to her, hopefully before she starts, that it costs money and a lot of work to pull it off.)
lol. I wish it was that.
Actually she says she’s going to do everything the opposite of what I do/have done.
She hates me.
She’s copying movies. Juno, Knocked Up… *sigh*
Stupid.
**Peeking out from lurkerdom as well** As someone who said I was going to do the opposite of what my mother did, I have something to say now–12 years later. I didn’t actually do the opposite of my mother–I am suprisingly similar to her. I think it was a painful growing-up phase. It’ll hurt to watch your daughter go if that is what she chooses to do–but you’re always going to be her mother and that is not replaceable….by her child, her boyfriend, or anyone else.
Looking back at my teenage years, I now respect my mother for the decisions she made (although they did make me angry at the time) because they made me the person I am today. I know that she is always there for me, no matter what stupid decision I make–but I have had to make those decisions myself to truly appreciate what I have at home. And…I always did find my way home. Hopefully, Jes will be no different.
Okay, those might not be the right movies to copy… ;) But I still have a hunch that she’s seen something in the home, probably over time, that has left her with some sort of instinct that such things are possible and desirable. I don’t mean she’s conscious of it!
Of course she hates you, she’s a teen girl. It’s what they dooooo. Nothing personal!
As a daughter that once proclaimed her complete distaste and disgust of her mother, I know now that I never really hated her. Yeah sure, maybe I didn’t agree with the rules and limitations at the moment and expressed it as hate, but deep down (even if I didn’t want to admit it) I loved Mom all along. Don’t loose hope. Your daughter loves you, even if she doesn’t want to admit it now. I hope for you, Scott, your children, and your future grandchild, that Jess makes a good decision and tries to put her life back together. Sorry if this makes no sense at all. Don’t give up hope.
Kaya,
Okay, I guess I need to send a “mia culpa” your way. I totally drew the wrong idea about what was going on. Suffice it to say that Scott not only has the right to put his foot down on that plan, he has an obligation to do so. Please pass on my appologies to Scott for thinking the worst about him (i.e. that he was demanding that Jes be kicked out of the house). Honestly, I should have known better.
Dave
I didn’t help you to not come to that conclusion. Through the screams in my own head, it’s not far from the conclusion I had myself. Or, maybe thats what I was trying to hear. Or something.
I could psychobabble this to death probably.
Thanks. For listening.
Kaya,
Any time. I’m a helper by nature and I’ve learned that listening is one of the best ways to do so (took me years to figure that one out :) )
Dave
for what it’s worth, i getcha. i think it’s hard for people to understand the “all or nothing” concept, because that’s one of the fundamental differences between what we’re doing and – well – not. we talk a lot about how the slave will “survive” if they were left/abandonded/chose to leave, but i see a lot of objectification of the dominant.
which isn’t fair. while we like to idolize them, they are, in fact, human. the concept of making each other happy is a big deal, and is kind of the core of any happy relationship, no matter what flavor. i’ve reached a similar conclusion, in that while i may have no limits myself, my owner definitely does, and they de facto become my own as a result. a hard pill to swallow sometimes.
submission, the kind i want, *is* an all or nothing. because i’m with you – anything else (i’m NOT gonna say “less”) doesn’t feel enough for me. the hardest parts are rarely about pain or sex or degradation, but about life choices and the direction of the future.
and also, for what it’s worth, i think he’s right. giving jess the impetus for her (and her child’s) future this way is the right thing to do. doing something else may be easier in the short run, but i think she’s incredibly lucky to have parents who have the foresight the two of you have (even if it wasn’t your idea. ;) )
It’d be easier to have my own limits than to accept his as mine, yanno?
It’s a hard road to hoe, in trying to do the ‘make each other happy’ portion while also not compromising his own limits. And the brunt of the work of this falls on him, for sure. My part is easy. I do what he says and if it doesn’t make him happy, he merely adjusts the ‘doing’ until it does. But to keep me happy, too? It doesn’t have to be complicated, but it CAN be, depending on what it is.
Far from being my idea, I fought it tooth and nail (obviously). I’m weak when it comes to them. He’s the strong one, and that’s not easy either. Jeez. Poor guy. He’s a saint..lol
Dear Tess,
You’re a momma bear, it’s only natural that the momma bear would want to protect and nurture her cubs and damned be to all the rest.
While it isn’t my place to comment on what is to be done next, I do reccomend signing her up for W.I.C. (Women, Infants, and Children) as it will provide funds for formula, diapers, and a few other food essentials. So that no matter what choice Jes makes the baby is provided for.
Good Luck. You’ll need it.
Best Wishes,
Ally
WIC, for starters. And any other place that can help.lol
WIC will supply tickets for formula and some food items. It is NOT welfare, but it also has limitations. It will not cover diapers, it will not cover specialty formulas. It will also help with the cost of, or renting of, a breastpump. Breastmilk is free. Cloth diapers (one can make them) take the cost of childraising down tremendously.
Just thoughts.
And state programs to fund the cost of daycare while she’s in school or working. I will add that the cloth diapers (unfortunately) won’t work in daycare centers or even state registered daycares.
Kaya, I had guessed this was the situation but my assumption was quite different than the actual conflict. I’m glad I was wrong.
Both you and Scott have my admiration and respect for how you are dealing with this. I can only imagine how hard it must be. I hope that she stays, continues to grow up, and betters herself. I hope, too, that one day she realizes what truly amazing parents she has.
Blush
Good luck with everything…
From where i stand, as an anonymous lurker on your blog, i think that you made the right decision in staying with your husband, and that in making her get a job, finish school, “improve her situation” etc., Instead of just financially support jess while she is playing house is the right way to go.
Good luck.
Thank you. I need to remember the right way is not necessarily the easy way.
Perhaps it would make it easier to think about what the long term consequences would be were you to actually do things the way that Jes wants you to, (the way that you wanted to).
I can almost guarantee you…positively, that there is no way that you will “never see that child” should she decide to move out and try it on her own. No matter how stubborn a child, no matter the “I hate you” declarations as a 17 year old woman-child…unless there is some serious abuse in the mix (which I don’t think there is) she will come to a point where she wants to have her mother in her life. Where she wants her child to know her grandparents. You are thinking about the worst case scenario in terms of your relationship with her (which, imho is based more in emotion than in logic). Think about the worst case scenario for her…and any of your kids, to continue to give them what they want. To continue to fix every problem for them.
Your master sees that, I’m sure. A future where there’s no end in sight for him to be supporting her and her child and her boyfriend, a future where not only is there one child, but likely multiple children. Perhaps even multiple men. A future where her children aren’t taken care of well because what’s she going to do when she has a crises with them? Run to you guys? If she doesn’t grow up now, she’ll forever be a child taking care of a child.
I’m sorry kaya. I’m sorry that you’re both having to go through this. What a completely shitty situation for all of you. Honestly? Makes me even more glad that Master and I aren’t planning on having children. I don’t think I could handle any of that.
I had my reservations about your decision to stay if you felt that strongly about what you needed to do for Jes. I didn’t think he was trying to kick her out, I didn’t have enough information to make a judgment on him…but I did think that perhaps your submission was coming before your responsibilities as a parent when you decided to stay. I’m glad that you explained. I’m glad that your staying and I’m glad that your master is a smart smart man.
wow!!!
Mistress would’ve had the same reaction as scott in this situation.
our oldest daughter will be 18 in the spring and recently dropped out of school and was dragging her feet to improve herself. Mistress gave her the choice of getting back to school or finding a job by the end of the year and she is now going back to school.
Mistress has my full support, at first i kept making excuses for our teen which caused alot of friction in the house. i am also an easy target when it comes to the kids. i now realize that they are no longer babies and need to pay the consequences for their choices and actions. my knee-jerk reaction is to always pick them up and rescue them. it is a daily struggle to them let make their own mistakes-they are hard headed like me and will only learn that way.
i have my limits as does Mistress. scott sounds like a “tough love” type of parent like Mistress is.
congrats on becoming a grandma. we have grandchildren from Mistress’s grown son.
Indeed, your Mistress and my Master sound a lot alike. I am a rescuer, always trying to play the referee between he and them, and never comfortable with letting them learn the hard way.
Thanks. I hope I make a good grandma! (wow is that ever hard to say. Grandma. Holy cow.)
i am confident you are going to be an amazing grandma.
the post of yours about bdsm being an illusion got me to thinking and inspired me to write my own post about it on my blog. feel free to check it out :)
sending you & your family warm thoughts.
happy holidays
I want to stop a moment here and cheer Scott for making what is ultimately not the ‘right decision’ for you and himself, but for Jes, her baby, and the family as a larger whole. Sometimes parents must let their hearts break a little to help their children’s to become stronger. I don’t think it’s just that your Master is tired and needs to see an end in sight – I think he’s offering the best choices for Jes to learn and do well with her life while protecting the rest of you as best he can. If you’re mother-bearing, I say he’s daddy-bearing. (Not sure he’d appreciate my saying so, admittedly!)
A note about equal partner relationships. You wanted to go with Jes’ plan (really? are you sure? I’m not sure you did – perhaps in your heart you’d like to let her lay in her own bed, but take the baby out of it, and I bet that’s not Jes’ plan at all) and your husband didn’t. As equals – if you were equals – you’d have sat down and come to a compromise or a ‘third option.’ (Which would almost certainly not be Jes’ plan, I suspect, because Jes’ plan sounds to me like gross abuse. Give her the car? Pay for her apartment? I call bullshit.) In any case, equals would not have come to a solution that was ‘one person gets their way.’
All this really tells me, I think, is that your dynamic works in the structure you have and does not work in other structures (like that of equals). In fact, those other structures are unrecognizably alien from inside the one you’re in. ;)
Congratulations to both of you for the hard but best decisions, and for continuing to build a future together.
I know you’re right. It’s just so hard. And probably, some of my reaction wasn’t in thinking that he was wrong at the time as much as I still struggle with not being the one to make that choice. I may very well have come to the same decision he did, and issued the same choices to her, but to have that choice plucked away from me, in the moment, was… difficult, to say the least.
“In fact, those other structures are unrecognizably alien from inside the one you’re in”
I have to admit I’m having trouble picturing it. A compromising, third option that is agreeable? Not his way or my way? Not one person bending to the will of another?
Does not compute.
;-)
kaya don t forget you did stand up and he only made you see the right way,he hasn t as I see it made you do the wrong things in the past and if he had you would have just made he see he was wrong so in the long runnin you do have a say when you say the right thing.I hope that made sence
SirDuke
Interesting. That’s hard to answer until he does try to make me do the wrong thing, you know? ;)
Yeah, I had a feeling it didn’t compute. ;) Yet that’s how lots of people somehow get by – with compromise or with seeking out a third option that suits both parties equally poorly/well. Sometimes those options aren’t agreeable, but the lack of conflict that comes with them certainly is!
On a side note: it’s obvious that you have decided quite intentionally to respond to comments on this post, and I have to tell you that I have come back a couple of times today to check and read your responses. The sense of conversation and community is amazing and wonderful. I wouldn’t suggest you should do this all the time, given the amount of traffic and the fact that you have other things to do with your time! But it’s a real treat, a holiday gift to me and I’m sure to many other readers, that you did it on this occasion. Thank you.
When people don’t have all the facts, and are trying to sort out a situation, they are going to fill the blanks in as best as they can.
Goin by what little you had written about the specifics, i really assumed that your Master had had enough (her getting pregnant being the last straw) and was kicking Jes out (back to your folks, maybe). i assumed that because *that* would have been a limit for *me*.
i’d go so far as to say – of course folks would assume your Master was being unreasonable, because we wouldn’t imagine you giving back your collar because you couldn’t go along with a reasonable (if tough) parenting decision. (FWIW – i do think he’s being very reasonable about it, given the information we do have)
People, for better or worse, judge by their own yardsticks.
i’m pretty sure Scott would have been given due sympathy if you’d felt comfortable sharing everything from the beginning.
i do hope it all works out. i’m a big proponent of tough love (in parenting and in BDSM).
I know. I created it, without thought, and so I had to fix it. I hope I did, I hope I smoothed over any damage. I’m really bad at not seeing how people take things because I get it in my head to be cryptic and secretive. Thank you for still reading and letting me fix his rep. :-)
That makes perfect sense. TPE “with limits” is no longer TPE. You’re either completely his or you aren’t.
Actually, I think your Master is being very reasonable. He isn’t kicking her out, he is offering her support (and choices!) and thus the opportunity to assume the responsability for her own actions in a safe and loving environment.
In my opinion her “plan”–even if you were millionaires–is a recipe for disaster. Being a teenager Jess obviously doesn’t see it that way but I hope she’ll come to her senses, or in the worst case understand this lesson later and be grateful for it.
I think you guys are awesome parents.
Thank you.
I hope she sees it that way sometime in the future. Right now she’s hating on me pretty hard.
I’ve never posted here before, but I’ve wanted to for a long time. I admire you so much, and I feel for you, definitely. I wish I could give you some advice or…something, but truthfully, it probably wouldn’t help, because I have no idea what you’re going through. I do wish you the best of luck!
I’m glad to have found this site. Watching — or, reading — your thoughts and ideas have helped ME out at times, and for that I am incredibly grateful. I really hope everything turns out for the best.
Yes, this all sounds very lame, and I’m sorry, but I just wanted to let you know how I feel. And…that just sounds weird, haha.
Thank you. :-)
As much as I may have helped out someone here, I get just as much help from the comments. If you’re lame, then so am I!
Doing the right thing sometimes hurts. Jes made her bed and has to face the consequences, unless any of you support abortion or adoption. She cant expect a handout just because she is a minor and you cant just roll over and go belly up for a child that wants to have it her way.
I admire your wanting to do what you can and help. She still has to be responsible and do the right thing (school or job) and I like that you are making her face reality. BTW boyfriend sounds like a real schmuck.
You ARE doing the right thing. Dont sacrifice your happiness and your marrige to Scott because your child made a mistake. I see the horrible position it puts you in but the day has to come that the childrens happiness isn’t more important then yours. The kids will grow up and move on and if you give up your life with Scott, what will you have waiting for you when the kids are gone?
Youre a remarkable woman Tess. Dont let Jes or anyone else suck the life from you, or take the happiness you and Scott have worked hard to acheive.
BTW Scott, you have my respect for being willing to help Jes should she stay with you under your roof. It takes a strong man to be a stepfather and accept the good with the bad. I’m beyond impressed.
You made me tear up. He so needs to hear what you said. I don’t say it often enough myself (I mean, for real. I was ready to walk out because he wouldn’t do MORE and do it MY WAY, and and and) and he really does a lot. A lot a lot. When he doesn’t have to, isn’t obligated to – how could I have even considered leaving this?
I’m so stupid.
I love my kids. It’s the hardest thing in the world to sit back and watch them struggle, with anything. I often feel like I’m being pulled in half and the only person putting me in the middle like that – is me.
(And the boyfriend? Schmuck is an understatement. I see nothing but heartache ahead in that department.)
Comment by kaya
2008-12-11 11:40:08
You made me tear up.
A good clensing cry works wonders. I love you Tess. Youre a good woman with resilence, dedication, devotion and a heart of gold.
*hands her a tissue*
Go tell Scott what I said, but make it come from you.
<3
I’ve lurked here for a while and I’m in the boat of being directed to your blog for the kink, but there’s a LOT of kink-related blogs and yours is so much more.
I can see that it must be hard as a parent to watch your child struggle. But as a young, single woman myself who is very independent and self-sufficient let me tell you something….
I recently had the opportunity to have a 21 year old girl come to visit my house. She’s the child of someone I know. She was a terrible guest. She threw up on my couch after drinking too much and while I understand that happens… she let me gather the cushion cover and afghan and tote them 10 blocks (on foot) to the laundry myself without so much as offering to help or an apology. She also borrowed some shoes without asking. And expected me to serve her a beverage when I brought home sandwiches from the deli.
I had to call my mom and thank her for teaching me how to behave in others’ homes. For making me take care of myself at a young age. At 21 I was established in a career and had my own place.
Friends of mine who were bailed out by mom and dad at will and on their whim are still being bailed out at ages exceeding 30 years old. A friend of mine whose folks bailed him out of credit card debt at age 22 were subsequently bailed out of their OWN credit mess at age 50 or so by THEIR folks! Not letting your kids grow up means they will never learn how to deal with reality on their own.
You did something very smart, very difficult and very, very filled with real love. Real loving is not simply making another person’s comfort level as high as possible(as you should know!), it is helping them to achieve the best life has to offer them, including strength of character. It’s often terribly hard, and can sometimes cost their affections for a while, but their respect will be won by you in time.
my very best wishes to you and yours.
Ditto to all the above. Having known people of all ages who got bailed out repeatedly, I can tell you that the end result is always the same: Never growing up and always dependent in the most bratty, disrespectful way on mom & dad (or whoever else they managed to mooch off of – sadly I’ve known several!). In the most familiar case to me is my uncle, who wanted to live on campus (because the 45 minute train ride was too long – it is standard for living in NYC) got it, despite my mom, six years older, having to work the entire time through college, always living at home. The uncle then dropped out, traveled cross country with his girlfriend, high off coke much of the time, got bailed out repeatedly. Had a brief job as a part time cab driver while married to wife number one, got kicked out (grandmother always gets heartstrings pulled by “oh he was homeless!” – ummmm not exactly, he moved in with his lover at the time). Worked as a bus driver for six years while married to wife number two, during which time the grandparents moved to live in the house next door, where the idea was the uncle and wife could help care for them in their old age. Well, since then he has been “disabled” and cannot drive the bus (but can still swim vigorously and play frisbee with the dogs…), got within one test of a computer degree but in two years managed to avoid ever taking it, wife number two divorced him, and he had to sell the house – which in fact my grandmother had paid a good number of the mortgage payments in years prior. So now he lives with my grandmother, mooches off ALL of her money on everything from a new truck to all the chichi expensive organic prepared food (the fridge is STUFFED) and of course copious amounts of wine and weed, does no cleaning around the house whatsoever, leaving my grandmother largely confined to her room, and procrastinates beyond belief on getting her medications. Did I mention the screaming at her he does, and the watermelon he threw? And the other examples I personally know (including one pregnant at 18 story) are not far off at all.
Tough love, is love and belief in her ability to grow up and be a person worth knowing. It’s giving her the real chance to fuck up and learn to stand on her own two feet, as a adult. It sucks. But it is the best thing you could possibly do for her.
/ramble
Oh hey, I totally forgot to add – the uncle? He’s 53.
Hi girl
Your master is right in his thoughts.He is doing what is best for the girl the only thing handing thing to her with out her owning them is making her a weak person and it will come back and bite you ,him and her in the ass.The best thing you guys can do is make her own up,she needs you both to be GOOD parents and teach her what is needed right now.btw it will be interesting to see what the little f—– who helped to do this will do when he see’s that he has to grow up
I know it is hard right now but all will thank you someday.
YOUR MASTER IS DOING TIS TO HELP HER TRUST ME
SirDuke
I expect the little F— to do nothing actually. He hasn’t yet and his other baby is, I think, due next month. He still doesn’t have a job. Or a drivers license. Nothing.
And with one baby already coming, he made no effort to protect himself from knocking up my daughter (neither did she, but still, neither did he!)
I know Master is doing what is right. I know. Just hard for me, as her mom, to see her unhappy.
My speculation (which is not a good thing to do at all – speculate) was that she was pregnant and that Scott demanded that she had an abortion. It makes me embarrased to think I belived something like that when I hear what the situation really is. I completely agree with Scott, I truly respect you for living your life without compromising and I apologize for my thoughtless speculation.
Please don’t apologize. I left the door open for those kinds of speculations. Maybe I wanted people to think worst case scenarios, in some childish way to make me look better.
I don’t know. All I can do is be ashamed that I did it.
He’s a good guy. He’s a great guy. He deserves so much better.
I felt guilty that I thought that, too.
And I do apologize.
Honestly… Scott, I love my dad, but I really wish that you could give him a lesson in fatherhood. I’m 23, and I know that my father would make me feel ashamed of myself if I became pregnant (from my boyfriend/fiance of five years, who lives with me). My father hates my boyfriend because J. isn’t what my father wants in a man for me… well, cheating and drinking isn’t what I want in a man, so I really don’t want to marry a guy like my dad! The point I’m trying to make… is that you’re a great father. And I’m not putting the word “step” in there for a reason. You’re a good man.
Kaya – You’re an awesome mom. It’s gotta be tough – I can’t even imagine the position you’re in right now, between knowing what’s good for your daughter (Teaching her to grow up) and wanting to make her happy. That struggle makes me want to cry because it hurts just THINKING about it and I don’t have children. You’re amazing, and I know you’ll do what’s right for her. She might hate you now but she’ll realize how damn lucky she is one day. And believe me… She’s incredibly lucky to have you in her life. You’re a wonderful person and I feel lucky to count you as an “internet friend,” even though you don’t know me. :D
Thank you for sharing this insight into your family situation.
I suspected the limit had to do with your kids but I had no idea at what level it was.
Frankly…I gotta agree with Scott here. I don’t blame him for making the decision he did. It sounds like he was being logical and rational and that’s hard when you’re up against someone who has an intense emotional attachment to the issue at hand.
Good luck with Jes!
Perhaps in general, Masters do not get the same sympathy as they really do not *need* it as submissives do? They tend to have much bigger shoulders.
As a mom and a sub I think personally it is easy to be too close to the situation to think of what’s best, especially with our children. I mean it is our nature to please and this is not always best when it comes to kids. In such case it is sometimes beneficial to have a Master to step in and put there foot down. I sent you an email and it was written quickly so I hope it comes acrossed the supportive way it was intended…
We’ve gone through some amazingly drawn out periods of misery, on both sides. A few times we (at least I) attempted to go vanilla, to save our relationship. You know? It didn’t work. It’s either M/s 100% or it’s nothing. We’ve come way too far to go back to vanilla. So I totally sympathize with you on that point.
Sometimes I wish Scott blogged aswell. I have been thinking about what could’ve bee going on, and his voice was really missing in it all. It must’ve been really tough for you both, this knee-jerk reaction. And I really understand the scary part was not being able to make that choise, not having a say in it. Sometimes, it’s not that someone else makes the choise, but that we don’t have an option, that is the difficult part.
Frankly, he’s making the right choise. You cannot protect and spoil Jes forever and she will learn the hard way how certain things actually work. Being a single mother, or a mother at all, is really not easy. You’ve done a great job of it, but it’s time to let go.
*hug* Pics on the sasquatch are coming your way before Sunday!
These are the reasons I said next to nothing in the past week or so. :)
No one should make judgments without all sides of the story and so I didn’t.
It’s too easy to read one person and assume the other person is all to blame. I’ve had it happen to me and I refuse to do it to anyone else.
To me it came down to three things. Either you were done – just fucking done – and there was not going to be any wiggle room. Or you’d calm down and sort out your feelings and realize tough love *is* the best route here, as it seemed Scott was saying. Or you guys would find a compromise that didn’t compromise your power structure.
Nothing I could say or do would have any effect and placing blame anywhere would just be shitheadery.
So.
I’m glad ya wiggled your head around to where you could see and think again. The fact that you needed some space and time to do so isn’t a bad thing.
Being a “good” slave doesn’t always mean immediate agreement and zero bumps in the path.
Sometimes it means you step back and struggle and your heart is nearly ripped out in coming around to doing what he wants you to do. But you do.
To me…
It makes you guys all the more real, all the less “fraudulent”.
And I seriously love ya both.
Wow Tess, you are one hellva woman. It takes a lot of self examination, honesty and humblness (is that a word lol)to come out and basically say yah, I was being a snot and making Scott out to look worse then he is so I looked better! I respect you so much for that.. not that you owe any of us anything but I appreciate the fact that you are keeping it REAL!
I am happy to see that you aren’t letting Jes come between you and Scott. She knows that he is your back bone, with Scott in the picture.. it’s hard to manipulate you. I have a feeling from personal experience that Jes would like nothing more then for you and Scott to be torn a part. The two of you make a damn good team… stay the united force that you are!
I have three daughters myself and I am remarried. I understand your situation the tug at the heartstrings but I always tell myself that one of these days these kids are going to be out own their own, enjoying life I be damn if I will let them destroy what my husband and I have so that I can be all alone once they all fly the coop.
For what it is worth, my hubs says the same thing about my girls living here as long as they either work or go to school… I still have a 24 yr old living here… she is in school but geez, enough is enough… I was out at 18!
Thanks Tess for keeping it REAL. Stay Strong, be happy and the rest will work itself out.
Tammie
To be honest, Tess, I think he’s absolutely right. I don’t agree with parents supporting their grandchildren when their teenage daughters have kids. I don’t agree with parents bailing their kids out of everything. It teaches them that they don’t have to worry about their mistakes because Mom and Dad will always fix it. Mom and Dad can’t always fix it.
I don’t know. I’m just glad you guys seem to be working it out.
Wow. I gotta say… I made some assumptions, and you’re right. The natural reaction is to sympathize with and offer support to the submissive and expect the dominant party to… well, be perfect. I tried my damndest to not do any accusing and just give support in a general way, but it’s still there. That underlying thought that you, clearly, were in the right and that he’s being an unreasonable bastard. Thank you, really, for laying the situation out. We, your loyal readers, are clearly a nosy bunch, lol.
I’m really glad for you both that you were able to come to a point where you could talk reasonably and bring the focus back where it belongs – the situation with Jes. At least for now, it seems to me, that’s where the focus belongs. It must be hard as hell to watch her go through this and to have to step back and let her sink or swim on her own. I don’t have a child, but I have pretty much raised my niece for the last six years. Kids are… tough. I commend you both for facing this head on and doing what’s best for all of you, as a family unit.
As always, warm thoughts to you and yours. Quick as some people (and I don’t give myself immunity on this) are to judge you’ve still got a lot of support here. I truly hope things work out for all of you.
-Brooke
“It was interesting, I thought, that when I was detailing having hit a limit, people were quick to reassure me that finding a limit where I previously thought I had none was a-okay, normal and expected. But when it came time to say that perhaps it wasn’t MY limit so much as HIM finding a limit, people were pretty quick to judge that that is not allowed on his part. I heard how he knew what he was getting into when it started and he can’t back out now and that’s not right and blah blah blah”
—————————————–
Well, to be fair, Most of us don’t know your owner. We only know him through your eyes so whatever you project is what we will likely pick up about him. It’s you we hear about. It’s you we see hurting and struggling and if you post that he did something vague that made you want to leave, you have to expect that we won’t think about him or his needs. People will think about YOU.
So I don’t know why you would be surprised that people would be championing your cause. Of course they would. They’d support you, your side, your everything because he’s not the one spilling his side of the story into our hearts and minds. It’s you. If you say “well, he said he wouldn’t support x child and blah blah” then of course some of the people who have been reading you, and watching you through this whole process, reading your anger, will say “Well, he should have been aware. He should support you the way YOU need to be supported”
Please remember that you set the pace, you set the tone of how we will react to your situation. If you are upset with your Owner, we probably will be too. Of course no one thought about his limitations or his needs. They weren’t presented. Yours were
Thats why I made this post. I realize I can only give one side and it’s difficult to be objective and fair about a side that I myself am struggling to come to terms with, but at the same time, it bothered me that people were coming to the wrong conclusion about him.
I don’t know your owner from Adam. I only know what you share, I only know YOU (in as limited an amount as one can “know” anyone through blogging). But, on the rare occasion that you share something less than dreamy-swoony about him, I try not to decide that he’s wrong simpy because you are not happy at that moment. I try to remember that doms are human and that whatever is happening within your relationship, I’m not getting the whole story. I don’t condemn him, in other words, based solely on your side of it. I don’t need to be told that he has limits and needs to know that he has limits and needs.
I can, and would, support YOU without concluding that he was wrong.
So yes, I was surprised and I did find it interesting that people – some people, not all, not even the majority – immediately concluded I was right and he was wrong based on what little I said. I did not say that I didn’t *understand* WHY it happened that way, I’m well aware that I’m the one people feel “closest” to and just as I jump to defend my daughter, my “friends” jumped to defend me – but nonetheless, it was surprising. I had thought, and perhaps incorrectly, that I have always presented him here as a fair and reasonable (albeit sadistic) man who is genuinely in love with me and cares deeply for my children. In fact, I KNOW I have accurately presented him that way because I’ve heard it repeated back to me many times. So, again, I WAS surprised that some promptly dismissed that and came to the conclusions that they did.
*shrug*
I didn’t make one of those conclusions. when your blog disappeared, I jumped to another conclusion all together which was “Kaya! Is your Master in India??” I mean I know he travels for work, but I don’t know where so India, shit’s blowing up, your blog is gone… my brain decided “holy shit, Scott must be in India!” Which is a crazy leap, but that’s the only reason I could imagine you giving up your life with him.
I supported your decisions and your vision of your future and I still do.
I’m just saying that the email was like “yeah I’ve been sugar coating it in the blog.. here’s the real shit..” Go back. read it. You kind of presented him entirely differently and maybe people were responding to that.
Oh I know, there’s a huge difference between the email and now. And a lot of the stuff in the email that I’m not detailing here is still going to be addressed in other ways that are completely unrelated to Jes and her situation. I’m not downplaying those issues, I’m just not talking about them here. Yet. Or ever. I dunno.
It’s hard, sometimes, to really separate what I *think* is happening with what is really happening. I mean, I know that I’m really really sensitive to slights about my parenting. I’m insecure about it, horribly so. Some people think they’re fat, some people think they’re ugly – I think I’m a bad mother. So, on a bad day I think everyone around me thinks I’m a bad mother too. On a good day, I’m able to hear what’s really being said and the spirit in which it’s been offered (in spite of his, at times, horrific wording).
Jes isn’t the only one in need of counseling. He’s even willing to attend with me, if only so we can establish appropriate boundaries on step-parent vs. biological parent. To get an outside opinion on appropriate expectations vs. mom’s idea that they should be coddled until their 80.
As I work through this my view is bound to change. I was angry, hurt and scared and now I’m somewhat optimistic, ashamed, and – still scared.
Very few people got that email though. And, not many of those people responded unfavorably. (Most of them already knew a bunch of what I said anyway. Probably, for those, like you I guess, who got it all out of the blue and without any background – I just shouldn’t have done it that way. And I apologize for that. I wasn’t thinking, at the time, that I was dumping so much crap but I was. I guess I felt closer than I should have, you know?) So… maybe I’m way off, I probably am. I often am. But it still surprised me.
I dunno. You’d think I’d learn to just stfu until the dust settles before I go off half-cocked. People who know me, like Carrie? Just pat me on the head and wait..lol. Bah. I’m sorry.
Well, I actually had an email sitting there that said… dude, Scott is right and you realize you’re not really going anywhere, right?
But, yeah, I just gave you a pat pat and waited. Cuz I *am* wrong on occasion. And, really, it’s all I do for most of my friends; listen, nod, patpatpat and wait for them to let me know if they need more.
I responded favorably.
But I also thought Scott was dead or something and that’s why your blog was gone. I don’t know if you got my “Oh God, is your owner in India, Kaya” email that I sent on fetlife. I knew he traveled. I didn’t know where. I knew India just blew up and your blog was gone. (It’s how my mind works… it just works that way.)
I am glad that things are better. don’t get me wrong. I really am and I never said anything bad about Scott anyway.. or you for that matter. I don’t have kids so I can’t say how anyone should raise them.
I’m happy your family is staying together though. families should do that.
Oh, just this one other thing.
If this had been Scott’s blog, and we had been reading him for years and he had presented “well, I can only do so much… and she doesn’t seem to understand that I have limits, too..” Um, we would have endeared him and supported him as well.
You get that, right? It’s not about who is right or who is wrong or who’s supported. It’s about who is writing, who we know and who’s perspective is presented.
If anyone wonders why we all keep coming back this post says it all — for me it’s the honesty. Wow, to put it all out there like this is remarkable — you are both very strong people. Most people post about their sex life — woohoo, another good fuck and flogging. But when you read about REAL life, you can’t help but feel the pain on a one-on-one basis. Cry, laugh, hope and dream with someone you don’t even know all based on word on a computer screen. Isn’t life grand.
Speaking as a mom myself of a 17 year old daughter, i can only imagine what you are going through. The natural need to protect is so strong. I too am feeling it in my own life. Keeping me from moving on with my own life, because i don’t want to hurt my daughter, so i absorbe all of the pain myself and always take a back seat to what really needs to be done.
You found the cream of the crop with your Master. Don’t let Him slip through your fingers. Talk, talk, and talk some more. Then listen. It will work out. As my mom would say, “what doesn’t kill us only makes us stronger”. But you know that already, you have grown leaps and bounds just in these past few weeks.
Good luck to your family.
kit
Kaya,
As usual, an astute and uncomfortable observation. I (and the community) do seem to be more comfortable with bottoms having limits than tops. It’s a hard thing for me accept that my Daddy has limits that don’t always match mine.
I am curious as to why your Master can have a hard limit (say adopting the baby) when you can’t?
*much love to you, your Master and your whole family*
Liz
Cause he’s the master, Kaya’s the slave?
My mom always used to say that you don’t know real happiness or real sorrow until you have children.
You got those tiny babies in your arms, and you think you can protect them against the world. And you just can’t. I’ll never get used to that. I still want to protect them. And the oldest is 28.
God, wouldn’t it be simple if we could just stay in the “dungeon” all the time and play???
24/7 slavery certainly doesn’t remove the rest of life’s issues..but it would seem, in this case, that it offers the framework to be true to yourselves…and being so, true to each other.
BTW..i have always admired Scott’s strength and consistency, now doubly so, knowing he is willing to go so far in supporting the family you and he have created. As far as setting limits, could you really ever have expected less of him? Would you have held him in same light if he didn’t do what he knew was the best thing for all concerned?
i am sure there is much more struggle in store for you all. i hope you find the comfort within the framework of your slavery to trust him to protect you and own ALL OF YOU, not just the “fun” stuff.
All of you will be in my prayers. Don’t let this crisis steal your joy in the holidays and your new home…easier said than done, i am sure, but just knowing what you are (HIS!) will make it so much easier to do what you need to do. Life’s so much easier when we can accept what is…something i find hard to do so often, but am working on all the time.
Hang tough, girl!
s/nik
Oh wow. There’s so much that people could say about this, but you’re right when you say they would have no idea about the situation. Not really.
I raised Lil Sis from age 10 on up. I was 20 when I started, and she’s 19 now. I often feared finding myself in the same situation that you find yourself in now. We went through some very bad patches, nights where we were called to the ER, a date rape, institutionalization.
If you need someone to talk to, someone who’s kind of sort of been there, but someone who doesn’t really know you, or the situation, who can provide an outside perspective…I’m willing. Maybe the pain and suffering we went through can help you. Lil Sis is in college now, struggling with bi-polar, but doing well overall. I hope a day comes for you when you can look back and know you did a good job, too.
*hugs*
I wrote, in a private entry I was too shy to share, that sometimes I feel that my motivations for being in my relationship are noble, perhaps nobler than those who ‘know in their hearts’ that they are a slave and can Top Hop until they find someone who masters them the way THEY want and the way THEY feel is right.
Me, that’s not what happened. What happened was, we fell in love. We tried for years to half-ass BDSM, to be a little slap-n-tickle, because *I* wasn’t so interested and *HE* felt that is what he needed. We tried, and we failed.
Eventually, we broke. We came to a point where he was going to leave me, because neither one of us were happy. My options were to have him leave, or become his slave. To do BDSM his way, or no way. He didn’t present this as a threat or ultimatum in order to get what he wanted. He was simply laying down the fact that he couldn’t continue on the way that we were.
I chose to sign on that hypothetical line. I chose to make my last decision. In fact, I quickly had “slave” tattooed on my neck, so that I couldn’t decide to spin shit my own way and manipulate the situation back to where the playing field was more level.
Now, my options are to submit, or I leave. Most of the time we’re close to being a normal person, with the kid and jobs and life. But ultimately, that’s what it comes down to. I’m not faced with it too often, but I am aware of it constantly.
I do not judge your decisions here. I also don’t blame you for anything. I’m saying…I understand.
Personally, I’m very sorry for the stress. It seems to me that Jes is going to have a ton of growing up to do, and try as you might, you can’t do it for her or force it on her. *Big hugs*
You’re both right. Wow…tough decision. You have a strong value and belief system, and my guess is that you know, ya just gotta do, what you have to do, to be able to live with that person who looks back at you from the mirror. Best wishes for your family.
Please tell Scott that he’s not the only one with hard limits. I went the same route about 22 years ago. No school, no job, no house. Step daughter moved out, got knocked up, baby’s father in jail several times, no support. She managed. So well that she did it again with him on one of his periods of release. So then two babys, no father to speak of. Then finally got a job, GED, a new life. Did I mention these are bi-racial children ? At 35 she’s still not got it all together but she is a good mother, wage earner, and her mother and I are spending Christmas with her and our grandchildren. Yes it was very hard seeing her fail and fail again but like my mother used to say, ” you can’t put and old head on a young body” . It may take 20 or 30 years but just hang in there. Let her know that no mater what she is loved. For me, he is right in what limits he has set.
Not to nitpick, but what does the fact that they are bi-racial have to do with anything?
In many communities (like mine) it’s probably safe to say that bi-racial kids will need more emotional support in the home than others, on account of stuff they’re going to experience outside of the home, in school, and so on. If the mother in this case managed to provide that support on her own, that’s one little extra thing she had to do. My interpretation, of course, may not necessarily accurately reflect Devil Dave’s comment.
/hug
You sound like you need one.
I hope that I wasn’t one of the people condemning Scott. I should go back and re-read my replies. Every story has at least two sides – most stories have even more than that.
I’m confused as to how Jess could even see what she wants as a viable option…maybe I’m missing something but from what I read she wants you guys to pay for her apartment and help, help, help…but she’s not gonna do anything to help herself? I guess at her age reason & logic aren’t exactly abundant, huh?
Oh gosh kaya…what a road this is. I’m so happy that you decided not to leave….I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had my hand on the door only to not walk out in the end. Please know that I’m pulling for you and Scott…and everyone else in your family. I know it doesn’t help right now, but try to remember that in a few years Jess will see that you’re not the enemy.
I am glad things worked out and I know it will be hard with tough love. He is a reasonable person and I have always thought of him as a nice guy. I have heard some parents kicking their kid out because they found out they were going to have a baby like after they turn 18.
I really think a parent should give a kid a chance so they can find work and finish school. big hugs for you.
While I strongly suspected this was the issue, I really felt sympathy for your Master. I did sense he was having to look at the entire situation and make the tough choice.
I also feel for you, wanting to fix everything and make things right for your child. The fact is you can’t live their life for them and you and your Master have every right to have rules about what is expected of children living in your home.
You may want to prepare yourself for her leaving to prove you all wrong and fall flat on her face. It won’t be easy to watch, but if she thinks she’s got a free ride she will never grow up. I hope she realizes what a good thing she has with you and your Master if she just follows a few simple, reasonable rules.
Best of luck to you all, I’m really glad you did not leave your Master.
I kinda figured Jes was with child. I hate to say it, kaya, but you didn’t hide it very well. ;)
But I agree with Scott. I hate the thought of her romantic ideals being shattered, especially the moment her water breaks, when she’s running on a couple hours sleep, when the baby simply will not stop crying, and when (very possibly) she is doing this by herself (if Baby Daddy is how you say he is, kaya.) Hopefully she will wake up early. She will get her GED, she will get a good job, she will raise her child well. She’s going to have one hell of a time if she doesn’t.
And I doubt she hates you. She’s a willful teenager, who thinks she’s got it all figured out (didn’t we all think that?), she knows the plan better than you do, and she’s gonna show you. It’s not that Scott deserves better, you two are so good for each other, he has the creme de la creme, but not a single being on earth is perfect. You’re not stupid. Jes is a unique human being with emotions, feelings, thoughts, and actions. Even the best parenting can result in a misguided child.
Good luck. :/
~Lexi
For what it’s worth, and maybe it is just a little since I’m speaking as not only a Mom but someone with 15 years of experience with Children and Family Services and Family/Dependency Court… ans someone who is in a Master/slave relationship with his/hers children…
I don’t know that this situation has a much to do with the collar as it did the wedding ring and just being a parent. I know that it was your collar that you gave back, but in a vanilla relationship it could just as easily have been simply the wedding ring – without the Dominance/submission/control.
Many times, in similar situations, one parent sees tough love as the way to handle it and the other wants to do anything they can to protect their child from hurt and hardship.
I almost think the M/s got caught up in it. I know he gave an ultimatum (or that is how I understood it), but I guess what I want to put out there is this – don’t beat yourself up, or him, and put so much weight on how this affects your Ms life. I don’t think you should waiver so much and question your own submission.
I see this as 2 parents having differing viewpoints. And I think it’s important to say that because I think in order to help Jess with this, you 2 will have to work together, drawing on each other’s very different strengths, in order to have a positive outcome for both Jess and the baby.
The solution is not something you can just come up with on your own or do by yourself, and even though he is the Master, it is not something he can decide completely on his own either. He may ultimately make *some of the decisions (re: money and how much you can A: afford and B: is reasonable to assist her with), but it will take both of your skills as parents (and yes, I do believe he serves as parent here) to help her.
Is this making any sense? After reading all the comments today, I just wanted to get across the point to not beat yourself, or him, up especially as it relates to your Ms dynamic – or really your *life. At points, there are simply times where your primary role is *parent* – and for him too. Of course his control will play into this, of course!, but all of the roles you play in life will be used.
Anyways… just wanted to throw something to chew on out there. I respect you so much for what you have done to raise your children and what he has done as a Dad.
I also, wish I could submit and trust my Master with the faith you do Scott. He deserves it, but I’m the scaredy-cat! I can’t let go of the control the way you do. I love reading your blog and am inspired by it often.
Keep up the good work Mom. It will pay off, it may not look like it, but it will.
kJ
browneyedgirl
You have my support and sympathy.
This is not personally a situation in which I think abandoning an option is a good thing, but it is her body and she can choose.
Unfortunately, many of us do not find pregnancy has positive effects on our mental processes. I never did, and when I got my tubes tied my husband patted my shoulder and said, “This is good, because if you got pregnant again, we would have to get a divorce. ” (laugh)
If you can’t hold firm on this, let him do so. Support him as best you can, and know that sometimes people don’t learn unless they learn the hard way, and it doesn’t matter how much you love them.
I’ve never actually commented here before but for the first time I feel like this is something I can really relate to.
I fell pregnant when I was 18 and I had the same idea as Jes. I come from an italian background where family was the most important thing and I was willing to drop my education and my job just to start a family. When I told my boyfriend, the father of my baby, that I was pregnant I expected him to feel the same way. And he pretended to for a while. But it grew obvious pretty quickly that all he wanted to do was get out of there and one day he did without a word to me about where he was going.
The problem in this situation is that your daughters boyfriend can just get up and leave at any time whereas Jes is attached to the baby. Hearing that he’s got another baby on the way doesn’t really give me a lot of confidence that he’s not going to do that. People his age go into every situation with the best intentions but when they find out that it’s harder than they expected they tend to take off
So, my point is that I totally applaud the idea of Jes trying to play happy families here because if by a small chance it does work out you can’t hope for anything more than a happy family. You have to let her at least try because if she doesn’t try she’ll never know whether or not it will fail. But you just need to make sure you keep close to her because when it falls apart you don’t want her and her baby to be alone and vulnerable in another state with virtually no means to support herself
My child is an older adult now, happy, healthy, successful. We didn’t go through a pregnancy, but we did have to play the tough love game, struggle through many tough times most people don’t face, struggle with each other and that child trying to figure out what the right thing was to do. You don’t know what it is, your partner thinks you’re wrong, you’re child hates you, and everyone thinks your child is a loser and you’re a horrible parent. Who knows why this happens to some kids? The other’s an over achiever – had to be reminded not to be perfect to overcompensate.
Some things I learned:
You’re not a bad parent unless you give into the emotional blackmail; she will become a master at pulling your emotional strings. My child could live at home only if working or going to school full-time. Verify. Job hunting must be done full-time as well. Verify.
She may leave and come back several times before she make it for more than a couple of years. She does learn something each time, and often is successful for longer periods before making it for good.
She’s going to break your heart again and again. You can live with that. No one can hurt you like your kids, your husband second while you fight about the kids. You’re strong enough to live with that too. Keep your eye on the ball. There is something worse than losing her to the streets; her living an entirely wasted life, wasting the life of children as well, unable to survive when you are gone. Keep that picture in mind, and you can do what you need to.
Try to place a shield around your relationship with your husband. You will need each other, and you will need to protect it from the tension there will be from trying to figure all this out again and again. When the kids are gone, it will just be the two of you and you will be glad you kept it safe and strong.
Best wishes to you both. Scott sounds very special; strong and caring enough to do this with.
On thinking that you aren’t 24/7: I don’t think that’s it. I just wanted to think the marriage was real too, and would keep you together working on the other until you found your way through it to success again. Not knowing exactly what the problem was, I didn’t know who it was that needed to move or if both of you did so I wasn’t making judgements.
Oops, I forgot one VERY important thing. Tell her often that she is smart enough, strong enough to do the things that you are asking her to do. That she is not the mistakes of her past, but the wonder of her future, that you believe in her and MEAN it. She has to see that you know she can succeed and is not a screw-up before she will believe it herself. She really has to see it in your eyes even if in your head you’re screaming other things!
Hey lady,
I just wanted to say that I imagine your readers largely support you not necessarily because you are the submissive, but because they are YOUR readers and not HIS. I’ve read a long time and never commented, but I wish you all well in this and all situations. I admire your strength to work through your difficult times. Whatever happens, it will all be ok in the end. It just has to be, because it is.
take care.
i was in Jes’s shoes at 16…my parents set out the boundaries Scott has.
*Luckily* for me it never came to that, as I had a miscarriage. I say *luckily* knowing that some people may find that offensive, but to me it is true. When I was pregnant I was scared but I had all these naive dreams about being loved unconditionally, being able to *right the wrongs* of my OWN parents and all that soft-focus-hearts-and-flowers-stuff… At the time I lost my baby I was so devastated. I was very badly treated psychologically by the hospital staff as a *frightener* so I wouldn’t do it again (I actually DID get pregnant again about a year later – with the same result)
For me, although *now* I know my parents love me, respect me and did all the right things pretty much, back then I felt so misunderstood and maligned… From what I have read here things have been fraught at times between the two of you to quite an intense degree. I have to say that I DO think you are amazing, and an insightful, fair and empathic parent, but looking at it from the Jes perspective I can totally see how she has formulated all her *plans* and why…I was there too once upon a time…
I have no answers for you, though I WOULD be willing to talk with Jes if you think it would help at all…
When I lost my first pregnancy my parents had just gone through all that you guys have (without the D/s element I hope – Good Lord that doesn’t bear thinking about *shudder* LOL) and it was essentially all for nothing. I remember my Dad fighting back tears when he said “My baby is too young to have a baby” and being relieved that it was over. I even felt maligned by THAT! The teenage brain is a dark and crazy place sometimes…
I feel blessed that for me it turned out the way it did. There have also been far-reaching consequences though…one of them being that I can’t have kids now (complications from 2nd miscarriage) I have the life I have and I am grateful for it, but the lessons are tough sometimes. And the irony that I can now never give my parents grandkids kinda sucks.
I have rambled on long enough here…
I just wanted to say that someday it will all be ok again, and if you stick to your guns I am certain that some day she will see that it came from a place of love.
Oh and Scott rocks! (but then you know that, you just needed a reminder :P)
I have never commented before, but I know how your other kids feel. I have to agree with Scott. Just from a parenting standpoint, if your kids don’t learn that there are consequences for every action you will forever be bailing them out. My mother is in her sixties and still takes care of my brother who is in his 30′s. Being co-dependent doesn’t help anyone. Also the difficult child seems to get all the attention and the other kids. Sorry this is so blunt.
When I was having my own issues, a while back (which, I will note, I was too chickenshit to actually put on my blog — you are much braver than you seem to think you are!) I put it to my Master that we stop being Master and slave and just be a vanilla couple who sometimes plays SM.
And he told me that if we are not Master/slave, he would consider the relationship over.
You are not the only ones for whom this is important. You’re not alone in that!
But, of course, in life little compromises to the stuff life throws at us have to be made. My Master says that the primary tenent of leadership is to “never give an order that won’t be obeyed.” I think that really shows that being a Master (or any sort of person-in-charge) is not just a static thing, but something that has to be given a lot of thought, and it’s really not an easy job. I have always thought Master S. was quite amazing at how well he does it, and I’m only more impressed the more you share about him.
I too am working on the concept of not just immediately freaking out and doing/saying something stupid when a crisis hits. I’m still not particularly good at it … but I’m getting better … and it’s being a slave that is helping me get better.
Master S. is a deep well of support for you, as my Master is for me. Sometimes neither you nor I will like the kind of support they are giving … but I’ll share my attempts at learning to trust, and you can share yours, and maybe we’ll help each other learn!
This is not my most coherent post ever — sorry, I’ve got a million chores to do today, and I can’t really focus on anything, but I did want to stop by and share my thoughts….
(Thank you, BTW, on the shout out in the last post. It made me all teary-eyed. You are so very welcome. You’ve given me so much through the words on your blog and being my friend … I am glad to be able to give something, anything back!)
Bless you, and your family.
The road will be tough, most of them are. But one thing I hope you realize in all of this, all I have read. You seem like a wonderful mother to me, look at much you care. Look at how much you are willing to sacrifice for your child.
I have five children, and it is never easy raising them, as you well know. But in all of that at the end of the day, we have our love for our children. And in that, they will know. Even tho at times it does not seem like it. They will.
I wish you many blessings and am thankful that there are mothers out there like you, who care enough to love unconditionally.
laurie
All of the trials and tribulations of parenthood bring us to interesting places…especially when we’re in M/s relationships… my little one is about to turn one, and while i trust my Master, whenever something “new” happens, i have a knee-jerk reaction, motherhood clashing with slavery. In my heart, i know what’s best (for the kiddo and for me) is to let go of that clash. But every time something new happens…there’s motherhood and slavery conflicting again. Gah.
And, i’ve also come to think, that no matter how old you are, becoming a parent for the first time is a difficult, frightening, miraculous and eye-opening experience ─ 17, 21, 27, doesn’t matter. First time mothers have nine months to “prepare” but once those little ones arrive, all the planning and preparation mean very little. Especially when we harbor ideas full of fluffy happy fairy bunnies. like it seems Jes is doing…
i wish you and Scott and your family all the best, and that Jes will see the silver lining on what (to her) seems to be absolute unfairness.
(please don’t respond to this guy. It just feeds his psychosis.)
What a useless piece of venom to be posted in the blog of a woman who’s raising two children with no tendencies of this kind whatsoever. As the spouse of a person whose family contains two ‘good’ children and one very troubled, messed-up, drain-on-society black sheep… hate on Jes all you want (for the right reasons – she’s irresponsible, manipulative, abusing her parent/step-parent’s kindness, etc.) but find somewhere else to spew hate language to the mother who tried and goes on trying with all her heart.
Killer,
I have trouble believing that anyone, even you, believes that sack of shit you just spouted. You’re either a dangerous psychopath who needs to be locked up to protectr society at large, or you’re a professional arguer, one who will say anything, so long as it’s assured to insult, annoy and cause friction.
However, assuming you do believe what you just wrote, may I pint out that by your own reasoning, God himself is a failed parent, since he couldn’t instil in His children, ebough moral fiber to follow one simple rule (don’t eat that fruit). There’s this thing called free will, I’m sure you’ve heard of it. I makes sure we’re not a world of mindless copies and drones. Unfortunately, once you give someone free will, you allow them to disappoint you (much like you disappoint everyone you know, I expect). Personally, I prefer God’s solution: Forgive them while holding them accountable, it’ll teach them a lesson. Anyone can turn over a new leaf and better themselves (even you).
Dave
Tess:
I have read through, no….make that skimmed through your post and all the comments. You are one popular lady! I figured you’d tell us when you were ready.
I am the mother of THREE teenaged girls. Two (yes two) are 17 and one is 14. It has not been easy…at all. I think the hardest thing for me is the fact that I see all of the children as “little mes”, and feel their behavior is a direct reflection of me. Probably very off base, but because of what I do for a living, I am also somewhat in the public eye locally.
In the past year or so I have come to the realization, that you can only do your best for all the children, and that’s all. They will make choices, some good some, not so good.
Your daughter is pregnant. It’s a consequence for a choice she made. Your husband/Master and you are being supportive—but not stupid. I think your Master has shown himself to be a very wise and generous man in many ways. I know motherhood kicks in and we want to do anything to help our children. The rules laid out by your Master are good ones. Your daughter needs you now more than ever—and that baby will too. Jen is in for a tough few years here, but I know you and your Master will be there every step of the way.
kaila
i gotta agree with Carrie…and i hope my own comments didn’t offend. =(
kaya,
i didn’t read all the previous comments so forgive me if i repeat anything that’s already been said but i felt the need to point out that what you’re going through is something that so many couples have to deal with. A child becoming pregnant, how to handle the parental decisions…regardless of the “dynamic” is going to shake up any household. You’re argument, you’re communication cycle, is both more extreme and more public than most though. Personally, i applaude your frank and honest appraisal of both the Jes situation and your knee jerk reaction to it. Sometimes doing the right thing is the hardest thing…especially without the guarentee that it will turn out ok in the end. Add my hugs, good thoughts and hope to the pot for this whole situation.
fown
I read through the comments and will try not to repeat what’s been said.
Kaya, you are SO SO luck to have Scott. He’s being not just your Master, but your children’s father. This is a huge undertaking that he seems to be very willing to shoulder. It sometimes sucks, but I’m sure that in your heart of hearts you know that giving in only sets things up for more manipulation.
I speak from the perspective of parent and step-parent. My step-daughter was 10 when I came on the scene, and she had her father wrapped around her finger. She acted out famously, and when she was 15-16 or so I felt that her life could go in any direction. She ‘borrowed’ without asking, stayed out all night (in New York City she would get served drinks in clubs at 15).We were lucky – she had some minor missteps, but now is 40, has a PhD, is married to a great guy and has 2 kids. And we ALMOST have a decent relationship – I still have hopes.
I’ve thought that it’s really wonderful and amazing that Scott has such a good relationship with your kids. He seems to truly care about them and take his job as their dad seriously. I’m sure that you cherish that. I hope that you can draw strength from him and from the love he has for you all.
Take care,
Rachel
BTW, think you’ll ever get to The Big Apple?
I’ve done church youth work for 30 plus years. I’ve seen thousands of families and teens. One thing I’ve learned. It’s NOT all about the parent. Other outside influences, genetics, brain chemistry, who knows what else determine how a child comes out.
I’ve seen “Perfect” familes – father a noted surgeon, mom the perfect soccer mom, first two kids get straight A’s and excell at everything they try. #3 gets into drugs and commits suicide at 14.
I’ve seen absolutely horrible families – father abuses the whole family then leaves them, mother an alchoholic, yet the child excels and graduates from Harvard.
Children MUST bear some of the responsibility for their own characters.
Children DO grow up most of the time. Sooner or later they outgrow teenage hormones and brain chemistry. That is when they understand and realize that Tough Love was applied for their benefit. They will usually (not always – but nearly always) come back into the fold IF the emotional door is always left open.
BUT – if you don’t force a 17 year old teen to face reality then that growing up process can drag on far longer than it needs to.
It’s a bit like a screaming child in a resturant. The poor parent lets the child ruin their dinner and the dinner of everyone around them because they don’t know how or don’t have the strength to deal with the issue. The wise parent takes the child to the bathroom and makes the rules VERY clear the first time it happens.
Result – both the child and the parent enjoy that and all future dinners out.
Teens aren’t any different. Somewhere down inside Jess knows she’s being lazy and irresponsible. Admitting that to herself and to you is harder for her to handle than “hating” you. But over time she will sink deeper into that behaviour if she isn’t forced to change. Humans are like that – emotionally we grab on to the very thing that is pulling us down. And when we start to sink we grip that behaviour for deal life.
As to “never seeing your grandchild” – personally I’d stick to Scott’s rules, then if you feel that she isn’t caring for the child, Call DFACS and have her investigated – making it clear that you are willing to be the foster parent if DFACS decides to take custody of the child. If Jess has no visible means of support, isn’t getting proper medical care for the child, etc. – DFACS will usually move quickly in most states. There are, regretfully, thousands of children in our state in the custody of their grandparents.
Kaya,
in answer to your questions, people took your side because you seemed to need the support, and because they read your thoughts every day, and feel like they know a lot about you. And because Doms dont usually elicit much sympathy do they? Big mean bastards…
Is he bummed because your internet world was mad at him? Whether he was or not, I think most of your internet world now thinks that he was the voice of reason, so everyone likes him again. And of course everyone likes him again because you are back together again.
And the person (people?) who pointed out that we would love it if he blogged were correct. We would love it, and be much less likely to take your side so fast. Tell him!
Oh and wouldn’t I love to give more advice on the pregnant daughter. But I think your Master has the right idea. You cannot rescue her from this, not permanantly. That would involve somehow turning her crappy bf into a prince.
Hey, do you have your tree up?
tina
with the life style it’s all or nothing…
doesn’t love work the same way?
kaya
Sorry I haven’t been keeping up the past few months as much as I would like. Life can get busy sometimes. My husband and I are having a baby in the new year and your posts brought up some feeling in me as to how I would handle the same situation. My husband and I are only having one but I think back to my parents who have four. Two are quite similar to Jessica and the other two are sort of similar to your other girl and boy (sorry their names escape me right now. It’s kind of early/late here) I think it is good you and your Master are givig Jess good limitations and forcing her to own up to her life and not enabling her to give up perhaps or turn lazy. She may not realise it now but later on she may be grateful and never let you know. Jess is definitely a hardhead but she’ll find a way. Support is definitely very good but enabling her rebellion is not. You did say once she can be a lot to deal with since you two seem to butt heads a lot.
Just make sure the other 2 children you have know you love them and encourage them daily to keep the right path for them. I think seeing you and Scott together likely helps provide that framework.
Strangely enough I am one of those people who don’t take sides in others situations because I know there are 2 sides and each side has their own thoughts and feelings about what goes on in life. Sometimes you just have to feel what you feel and let a little time pass before you can get rational and logical about what must be done when it comes to certain things. Just stay strong as you can and keep the boundaries tight and there will be hard times for sure. Hopefully Jess will start to see that “Hey I made my bed and now I have to live with the choices I have made.” Rough times but hopefully she will come through it alright!
So….my first reaction to that initial ‘let’s call the whole thing off’ blog was that you’d had a knee-jerk reaction to something that I knew, once the dust had settled, you would struggle to accept, but accept nonetheless.
Because, well, that’s what slaves do.
I’m not an expert by far on child-rearing and I realise it’s always easier to say than do, but one thing I think a lot of modern parents forget is that they are parents, not friends.
Friends are expected to be supportive and go along with everything you say. Parents are a voice of reason, a source of wisdom and givers of unconditional love. While parents can also be friends, they are parents first and foremost.
It’s not about tough love – it’s about beng a parent.
k
I know its hard…because i have been in the same shoes you are in now…You have to let them make their own decisions and you have to let them grow up and make mistakes. Your Master is only thinking of you, and i understand where he is coming from. I agree with him, she should be making some sort of effort, it will only help her in the long run. If she doesnt, she shouldnt let the door hit her in the ass on the way out. I know it sounds harsh, but trust me, its the thing to do. Good luck. And remember, you have to stand as a united front with kids, or they will walk all over you
It all makes sense to me.
You never know what life will throw at you, do you?
Hope everything works out.
I’ve been lurking for a while, and somehow I guessed the situation was exactly what it is. I think folks who read you have a good sense of the ‘mama bear’ you are (not a bad thing!)and it would take something that big for you to remove your collar. I’m not a parent so my opinions are based strictly on observation. And those who are advocating letting Jes deal with the consequences of her choices are right on. Your Master has been a good and loving father to your children by your posts, and his instincts are good here. I think mothers have a tougher time with these things. You can still offer encouraging words and be supportive of her without rescuing her. Any chance she would go to counseling with you?
I also meant to say that I’m among those lurkers who admire your writing, your willingness to be so open and your ability to express yourself. As the comments attest to, there’s just something about your blog that even strangers respond to. Know that for every comment, there are probably many more readers you’ve touched and who are sending positive thoughts your way.
Is there no one else who’s thinking that they’d crazy glue the daughter’s knees together until she hits age 18!!!
SOMEONES CHILDREN OUT HAVING CHILDREN -AND FATHERS THEY CAN’T BE BOTHERED
Maybe instead of the bru ha ha the drama, the tears,the fighting, the hanging from chandaliers -did you guys ever think of giving this baby a good start by couples who can give this precious baby a good home and a good life?
I see it at work, so many nice professional couples who can’t have children-kind of breaks your heart. Then, the part where I work— I see girls who have like 3 kids (some are pregnant again) and then i have to go and see where they live and thats heartbreaking too- when Jes is laying down and the nurse says this isn’t a playgound and it ain’t home- gosh from a teenage lover to an unwed mother- you could give so much sunshine to these couples who could give this baby soooo much.
I’m delurking. I know you’ve had a tough time and it’s good to see that things are sorting themselves out.
With kids, all you can really do is teach them what you think is important and give them the environment, love and tools to be happy and successful. My own mom called this giving your kids roots and wings. I always liked that.
It’s up to them what they do with that.
I’m pretty certain that most young women go through an insanity period. I did. I moved out on my 16th birthday. My mother and I had a very turbulent and often violent relationship from the time I was 12. It was very very bad and hard.
After I moved out, though, things sorted out. She didn’t feel as responsible for me, I didn’t feel smothered by her. I made some bad choices, but the things she taught me became something I relied on heavily in order to survive.
While we weren’t BFFs, we learned a mutual respect and enjoyment of each other’s company. She helped me out when I needed her, but I ALWAYS knew it would be on her terms, not mine. When I couldn’t buy groceries, she took me to the store and didn’t just give me money – which she suspected correctly would be spent on drugs. When I needed cash for a certain verifiable bill, she paid me to clean her house. And, when I got in over my head and needed out of the situation, she came and got me.
There are lots of ways of showing love, as anyone in this lifestyle is aware. Some people call it tough love, but to me I think it’s just a more respectful way to love. You can still be nurturing and loving by you offering solutions that require them to make responsible choices.
When I was 20, I went back to her and apologized for going crazy for a while and being such a bitch. I firmly believe that her setting boundaries on how I could treat her made us CLOSER in the long run. It is certainly not an easy thing and I’m sure that she struggled with seeing me quit school and live in nasty places.
Obviously, I’m a different person than your Jes. Some people have a harder time than others. I wish you and your family all the best.
Jes is not his child!
ah, i’m not surprised that Jes is pregnant (i gathered that from one of your posts), and i agree with you — you & Scott both have limits! That is right and good and dare i say it, normal.
Your daughter will do what she will, with or without your consent or help. in my opinion, you must do what is best for you & Scott. 17 year old girls know everything about the world, just ask them. Once they have to face that world without your support, they will REALLY know about it. Life is good or bad, but in the end, life just is.
i think that i am very pleased that you aren’t leaving. i would miss you if you disappeared.
gloria
This is what my gut told me as well. We all know you so well. You are both amazing people kaya, and I know I said this before but I believe that you two were meant to be together. I cannot imagine one with out the other. I also know that sometimes things happen and change and that is that. You have to do what is best for you and it sounds like Scott was doing or saying what he thought in the long run was going to be the best for everyone.
Master always says I am so sedate, I can go with the flow, I dont get mad often and I am not really a yeller, He also notes that with my children I am a mother bear really, rattle my cage and I bite with out the bark.
It was hard to have him tell me something else as well and that was that he feels like sometimes at least in years past that I jump as if to defend and protect the kiddos in situations that they neednt neither namely where Master is concerned. Isnt the truth about high n sight being 20-20. I wish I had a rewind button sometimes so that I could go back once my emotions calmed down and I took the mother bear glasses off and actually understood what he was saying. I think when I snap into that mode I only hear half of what he says and in my mind I make the rest of it up to suit my actions.
You are a brave brave girl and a wonderful mother as well as wife. You wear many many hats and everyonce in awhile one of them suckers is ganna fall off or get a little out of date. You will get set again.
I also was your daughters age when I had my son. Its so flippen hard but it was the most rewarding thing I ever did with my parents support and not them making all the decisions it actually made me and my mother very close to this day I remember that time.
I grew up in leaps and bounds, you have to when you are then going to be responcible for another.
One more thing the best mothers make even better kick ass grandmas. Let the baby spoiling begin.
I love you and I am so glad weather together or apart you are still here and still so open and willing to share your life with us. You are a blessing
hugs
your friend,
tia