Master… or Dad?
Recently I got a little snippy with Master and while it was more pms-fueled than anything else, it has left me wondering about something.
What happened was, for a couple of nights in a row, he told me it was time to go to bed.
Which, you know, whatever. He gets to tell me what to do, right?
Except, on that third night I stood there with my hands on my hips (“bitch wings” those are called, btw) and snapped that I am perfectly capable of telling time and that I hadn’t come into this (“this” being an M/s relationship) to get a new Daddy to tell me what time to go to bed.
That I already have a Dad. And that I’m far too old to have a bedtime.
Now, he’s been telling me when to go to bed for years, so this isn’t a new quirk of his. Why I suddenly balked at being treated like a child, or why I suddenly SAW it as being treated like a child as opposed to being controlled, I have no idea.
Pms makes a handy scapegoat, but if it were only pms, the irritation over it would have faded the minute I started to bleed. It hasn’t though.
Well, I’m not irritated anymore so much as I’m questioning what IS the difference, or is there one at all, between repeating my childhood with it’s various rules and restrictions, and submission in a bdsm sense? Have I merely found myself a new parental figure?
Is becoming a slave synoymous with being childlike?
When do rules become less Master-slave oriented and more parent-child? Or is it simply a matter of perspective?
For whatever reason, though I’m no less interested and dedicated to being a slave and obeying rules, I’m bristling at being treated like a child, and yet, I’m not able to put my finger on the difference.
When it changed. Why it changed. HAS it changed.
Maybe I’ve changed.
Maybe nothing changed and I just had a bad day.
Maybe it’s just that so much of what we do anymore is service oriented that control is stifling. It chafed me.
I dunno. What do you all think? Does it feel childlike to you to have rules to follow, especially rules that mirror your typical parent-child rules? Would you balk at a bedtime?
Uncategorized | kaya | 
Monday June 29th, 2009 9:55am
This made me think too much. And write too much.
Like, way too much.
*wanders off to think s’more*
~Chloe, confused
[rq=80898,0,blog][/rq]Randomness Numero Uno
I want a s’more!
That’s a real good question, one I’ve been debating in my head as well. TBH, I don’t yet have a real solid answer. So far, I’ve only come up with it being in my mindset.
I personally associate Daddy/child relationships with age play by making the sub-type more childlike (stuffed animals, blankies, baby talk, etc). That’s not something M and I emphasize in our relationship. When I speak to Master, I speak respectfully, but in an adult-like manner. I’m given adult responsibilities (domestic management, caring for children, etc.). This helps me maintain a feeling of difference in M/s vs D/c concepts, rules, expectations and such.
I make that same association with childlike activities. And we don’t do that either.
I say it’s stress from the baby on the way.
[rq=81052,0,blog][/rq]Shopping therapy on a budget?
I say so too.
Part of the reason I’m into “this” IS because it allows me to be childlike. I’ve been the parent to my own parents for a long time. Then, I became a parent. Daddy’s the only person in the world that cares for me, and takes care OF me, in a way that allows me to…fucking relax a little.
Ageplay is what I’m into. He’s not, so much, presumably from all the negative connotations and psychological bullshit surrounding it. We’re managing to find a nice compromise, where I get to be little and let go some, and he gets to care for me – without sacrificing his workhorse sex kitten, too.
Sometimes I get angry that I’m treated like a child – I’m a completely capable, relatively rational, adult with a child of my own, thanksverymuch. Other times, I melt right into it and just go for the ride.
And my bedtime’s 12:30 when I have to work, unless he’s home and it’s whenever he tells me to go to bed.
[rq=81089,0,blog][/rq]Public Post
I think if I were into ageplay even a little bit, I’d not react negatively to child-like rules.
But I’m not..lol
And usually I’m able to rationalize the adult purpose behind a rule (as I explained in the next post for bedtime).
Just at THAT time, it hit me as childish. *shrug*
I should probably specify that I’m ‘into’ ageplay only as a relationship dynamic, not anything sexual. For me, there’s a huge difference. Emotionally, though, it’s big for me. I suppose it’s not so much a turn on, but rather an emotional safe space, like puppy play.
And hey, yay for the randomness that hopefully allows growth?! We just had an ‘incident’ over a coat. MY coat. Well…it was mine. Yeah. I’ll be blogging. :/
[rq=95663,0,blog][/rq]Public Post
Well speaking from a girl in a Daddy/babygirl D/s styled relationship, I’m given computer time limits, a bed time (more of a guide line) and have rules to follow.
I have my tantrums and such and He gives me a look and I stop. It happens to the best of us. I think even the most slave like slaves have their temper tantrums just to test the waters and see how the Master reacts.
You’re indulging your inner brat. She needs a voice too
[rq=81115,0,blog][/rq]Break
I think Master would say that my inner brat has the loudest voice of them all.
Well, it’s kinda tricky at my eyes. My master acts kinda like my dad but we’re not really into ageplay officially talking. But i love to feel protected and to have those rules to follow… Maybe because i needed someone to care about me when i was a child?…
Dunno, but i think the love it’s similar, the play it’s similar and the dynamics, nothing wrong to be a obedient child/sub.
I have to ask- do you ever think that you might “outgrow” that need to be protected as you should have been as a child?
I mean, if a child outgrows it and you need it because you didn’t have it then, doesn’t it seem reasonable that you might also outgrow it?
I’m just picking your brain here. I’ve had similar thoughts about outgrowing the need for things in my own slavery, too.
I would balk at a set bedtime, but then again, when I was a kid, I gave my mom a hard time over it too. *shrugs*
I am wondering the same as you. But I don’t know if it’s necessarily a bad thing, because I need that kind of…I wouldn’t say control, but my mom was very distant, and with the issues I’ve got, it’s like re-parenting me. I need to have somebody in my life who can set rules and limits for me that my mother never did and do it out of love.
[rq=83432,0,blog][/rq]On or Off?
I’ll ask you the same thing I asked the other commenter-
do you ever think that you might “outgrow” that need to be protected/controlled as you should have been as a child?
I mean, if a child outgrows it and you need it because you didn’t have it then, doesn’t it seem reasonable that you might also outgrow it?
I totally balk at having a bedtime. Taylor doesn’t tell me when to go to bed often, but when he has? I have a fit.
For me it has to do with insomnia, though. I resent being sent to bed when I know I won’t sleep. It’s mean. And senseless.
And… I dunno… It’s not a consistent thing so I’m not used to it and it feels shitty.
[rq=83453,0,blog][/rq]Do-nothing-est Weekend Evah
It felt mean and senseless at the time for me too. And I don’t have insomnia.
I think I had a “moment” though.
Perhaps you’re just having a bit of reactance triggered by the hormone and stress stuff. Plus, you’ve mentioned how busy he’s been. I doubt that the bedtime tantrum had anything to do with him telling you when to go to bed at all.
You know a lot of the changes you’re facing in the next week or two and perhaps are trying to get yourself in the headspace of trying to be helpful while also maintaining boundaries AND trying to maintain an M/s relationship with your husband AND taking care of your other kids to boot.
It’s no wonder you’re having a bit of an off day. I suggest you pamper yourself a bit, you might not have much time for it soon. If it were me, I’d also be asking for a beat down from him. Not punishment.. fun stuff.. before someone thinks I’m saying something that I’m not.
And just to clarify, I’ve got a Daddy, but we don’t do any sort of role play. It’s just the “title” that happened to fit him. He likes it, I like it. You can just as easily substitute Owner, Master, Dominant, Silly Sadist. He takes a bit more of a caretaker/advisor/guide role in my life than other owners I’ve had, and, if anything, is more bossy. And I like that too.
[rq=81466,0,blog][/rq]Nomz
Beat downs are never unnecessary. *nods*
Kaya,
Interesting question. I know from other blogs I’ve read that calling the Matser Daddy doesn’t mean it’s going to be age play, but beyonf that, I don’t quite understand the dynamics that go on in such a relationship. The ones I’ve read don’t actually describe the dynamic itself.
As to the question, I’m not a submissive, but I have to give myself a bedtime or I’ll be teaching in my sleep. And no, I don’t like it at times, so I can imagine how you feel at times when someone else imposes it on you.
Dave
I dont quite understand the dynamics in a relationship where “Daddy” is NOT in reference to ageplay either.
I don’t negatively judge them- but I don’t understand them.
That was never a title that “fit” Master. It’s not that he doesn’t take on that kind of role, but that title and everything it can mean just didn’t work. He was far too sadistic, selfish, and a hundred other reasons to be “Daddy”.
I didn’t understand it either, really, and now I’m in one. I always figured it had to be too soft or coddling for me. It’s not, or at least it doesn’t have to be.
I think there’s a lot of baggage associated with the word itself, maybe even more so if you have a great relationship with your own father.
I was with my former owner for 8 years and the word Master has a bit too much baggage because of that. Not bad stuff, it’s just something I associate with him.
[rq=87073,0,blog][/rq]Nomz
I’m with you on baggage. I think.
For me, I never had anyone to call Daddy. Not even my own dad (because he left. *shrug*) and though my step-dad was a terrific father, he was never Daddy… nor did we interact in a way that I associate with Daddy/daughter stuff.
So, yeah, that word feels completely foreign on my tongue. I think, were Master ever to tell me to call him Daddy, that’d be the biggest and hardest hurdle to get over. I don’t know that I could, with any amount of emotion or meaning attached to it.
Though I certainly recognize it as being *my* baggage to the term and I don’t assign that same baggage to anyone else who uses it.
Yesterday we stopped at the store on the way home from the gym because Dan wanted something for himself. Instead of parking and going in together as we normally do, Dan parked right in front and told me to get out and get the stuff while he waited in the nice air-conditioned truck.
Now, I tend to bitch and whine if I feel I’m not being controlled enough or dommed enough or whatever. And I’ve been doing that a little more recently because we’ve gone through some changes and I haven’t been getting much of that lately.
So I understood from the smirk on his face that this was a control thing. A, “Get in the store, bitch, and get me mah grub because you’re sub and I’m dom and just fucking do it.”
But instead of making me all subby and grovely and juicy, “Yes, sir, I will serve you, hawwwwt”, I was outraged and ticked off. I stomped into the store thinking, “What the fuck? Why the fuck am *I* going in when it’s your shit you want? Who the fuck do you think you are? And what do you think I am?”
So I’m grumping my way through the store, plopping the stuff on the conveyor, scowling at everyone, pissed off that I was in the slow line, yatta and when I came out I was one surly sub.
Dan said, “Hi baby!” as I opened the back door and piled in the groceries and I was all…mehhhhh/shrugs.
He wanted to know what was wrong and I told him I felt wounded and taken advantage of and such and why didn’t HE go in the damn store and I’m a princess, damn it, and blah blah and he just laughed at me.
Why do I share this with you and what does it have to do with the Daddy connection or lack thereof? I don’t know, really, except I can be one capricious, fickle bitch when it comes to “this thing we yatta” and fuck if I know why much of the time.
There. Did I help? *grins*
[rq=83578,0,blog][/rq]Apropos of Not Much
Yes. You helped. At least I know I’m not alone in getting what I asked for and then bitching about it.
tee hee!
welllllllllllll i’ve always said being a sub/slave is very much like being a child. or having child values… or something..
like… i equate having rules to follow as having a fence around the playground – it makes me feel safe.. i know my boundaries and don’t (shouldn’t??) worry as much about making mistakes..
i also equate being Dominant with being a parent – having to set down rules and enforce them…
and kaya.. just FYI.. i do have a bedtime.. during school days .. bath at 9.. bed by 9:30.. on weekends i can pretty much stay up as late as i want.. but i am not a night owl so i tend to ask for permission to go to bed……
morningstar (owned by Warren)
Does that “fence” ever feel stifling as opposed to feeling safe?
Don’t confuse childlike and childish. They’re very different.
And yes, I’m very very very childlike. Just now, M showed me this AWESOME, COOL magician’s fight in NWN2 (pc game) and I was like “Wow… all those pretty lights!” *snicker* Though what it says about his gaming…
Of course I don’t see myself as childlike OR childish.
So there!
Eeeeerrrggggghhhhh…
I think that rules are rules. Some rules seem more “adult,” like “make sure the bills get paid on time,” and “make sure that the meals that are prepared by you each day meet the dietary requirements for our health.” Other rules just seem “silly” or “dumb” — childish, perhaps, and I suppose that the way that it feels on any given day might shift depending on where my head is. Others have already pointed to the multitude of stressors that you are juggling right now. In my experience, the more emotional and/or physical stuff I am managing, the less well I tend to do with managing the demands of our dynamic. Any sudden shift or unexpected turn can set me on my head under those circumstances. Too, if you have been in a fairly “hands off” phase in terms of feeling His control, and then He slams some onerous-feeling requirement on you, it creates a kind of intellectual whiplash. No wonder you react as if you’ve been smacked in the head! I don’t think that there is anything HUGE going on with this particular bump, it is likely just that — a bump.
All the best,
swan
[rq=83749,0,blog][/rq]Ex Mother In Law
I’m going to keep you on retainer as my web-voice-of-reason.
*nods*
Yer hired.
retainer?
does this mean I’m gonna get paid “the big bucks?” GRIN
[rq=91789,0,blog][/rq]Ex Mother In Law
…and it’s not being treated like a child. It’s good property management
[rq=83772,0,blog][/rq]Shopping therapy on a budget?
If only I could believe that him making me go to bed when he does was for MY benefit and not purely for his.
I have to disagree with Carrie Ann’s opinion that giving an insomniac a bed time is mean.
I had chronic insomnia until my dom put a bed time in place . I couldn’t get a decent nights rest to save my soul. Sure it was difficult the first weeks, but as I became used to it, I found that I slept more deeply & for longer periods.
When I’m working, my bedtime is at 1030p. Now that I’m not, it’s midnight. I do have allowances for evenings out etc. but those are the guidelines.
Hugs, Elle
[rq=83781,0,blog][/rq]Nothing But Time
I know nothing about insomnia so I can’t say one way or the other. I’ll have to trust both of you to know what works best for you!
Um. Don’t get me started. I have way too much confusion over this issue. Sometimes I think that our D/s relationship would be healthier if my real Dad weren’t such a control freak, and other times, I know it would be healthier if my real Dad weren’t such a control freak.
[rq=84246,0,blog][/rq]Hurt
It seems far too easy to combine the roles, doesn’t it?
Oh, as for the bedtime thing, Daddy does tell me when to go to bed each night, but I don’t have a set bedtime. Because we are long distance, it is one of our rituals/habits that he assigns tasks for the evening as well as a bedtime for that night. If he forgets and/or I forget to remind him, I’m generally to be in bed by 11.
I don’t balk at bedtimes (because I’m used to it), but I do balk a bit when we’ve both been going with the flow a bit and he tosses in something new. Sometimes only internally and I push my way through it, sometimes I express it to him and ask him to help me deal with it.
When there aren’t overt signs of control, or a slackening of the leash a bit. Like swan said, it’s a bit of an intellectual whiplash when they pull you up short.
But isn’t it nice to know that you haven’t become a mindless robot yet?
Sometimes it feels like I’m being picked on when he asks me to do something I love/hate after he hasn’t had me do it for a while. There’s that stomach churning, “I don’t wanna”, chafing, grumbly kind of feeling that comes up. It’s not comfortable any more. I’m not USED to it and now I have to deal with the hiccups all over again.
Despite having a Dominant who I actually call Daddy, I don’t see him in any way as a father figure. He’s not my parent, he’s a kinky perv who likes to boss me around. Oh, maybe he is kind of like my dad! >:-0
I dunno, I guess there’s a comparison. They are both authority figures, or have been at one time. But there is that choice element again. As a child, you don’t have a choice. Your parent is your parent they they might be good or shitty, but they are the one in charge. Choice makes all the difference. We enter into these things based upon our own desires.
It’s kind of like when people compare S/m or M/s to abuse. Or when they compare being a domestic, stay at home, raise the kids kind of slave to being an oppressed housewife (you know, one who would have preferred to have a job, not EVERY housewife) from the 50′s.
On the surface to an outsider, it might look the same, but underneath, we know it’s what we want and how we have chosen to live our lives. So yes, it’s perception, and perspective as well. In the long run, I get more fulfillment out of doing what he wants than not. And I guess that’s the bottom line for me.
[rq=84338,0,blog][/rq]Nomz
“In the long run, I get more fulfillment out of doing what he wants than not.”
Agreed. So I’m going to chalk this one up to “In the short run, I lost sight of the long run.”
I am so going to be posting about this. Thanks for the post idea.
You’re welcome!
you know, one of the things most people HATED about being a kid was that parents would sometimes say things, give us directives, and when asked why, the only answer provided was, “because i said so.”
in the kind of M/s dynamic i see with you on here (and one of the ways it mimics my own) is that my Master (and yours) FREQENTLY gives directive and the only POSSIBLE reason is “because i said so.” and for them, and for us, the way it works, that’s a perfectly valid reason. Master needs no other reason than that.
as children, we would like to think that eventually, some day, we will figure out that supersekrit hidden meaning behind the “because i said so”, and because our parents are there to care for us and help us grow, there has to be SOME reason, somewhere, that maybe they thought we weren’t ready to hear yet.
with M/s though, there doesn’t have to be a reason back there somewhere. there doesn’t have to be a purpose that whose end justifies the means of that statement. they can tell us to do whatever, whenever, at whatever time and have no reason whatsoever.
“because i said so” is the reason, and DOING it because he said so is the reason he told me to. because he likes to watch me do things JUST because he says.
any time one person is caring for (or taking charge of) another, it’s akin to (but not identical to) a parent/child relationship. our own parent/child relationships (as actual children) play into that too, depnding on what your actual biological parents were like.
i think you can think this to death, and contemplate your childhood, and what it means to be an adult or a child, and all that stuff, or you can just latch onto “He said so” and go with it. *grin*
me, i like to think things to death. *laughs*
sometimes it shocks me that i actually DID really give up the right to say, “i don’t have to!” *shrugs* and when you’re a kid, you don’t have that right either. maybe it’s the idea of having put yourself back in the hierarchical state you were as a child, and the knowledge that at some point, you voluntarily stepped into that door.
and sometimes that’s a slap, you know, to look at it and go, “at some point, i chose this. wow.”
i’m rambling… i’ll stop, but hopefully i contributed SOMEthign of value, or at least worth a think. *smile*
(and thanks for that nudge…)
Master’s ~melly
You’re welcome. I’m happy to be reading you again. Everytime I go to comment, something (or someone) drags me away so let me say it here: I’m happy to be reading you!
Actually, hearing “because I can” gets me to accept it FAR more easily and quicker than any other reason.
Because that reason (or lack thereof) *makes sense* to me in the confines of this M/s relationship.
That he can do whatever he wants just because he wants to? Thats, like, my purpose! I’m cool with that.
But on that day, I dunno, it just felt different. His tone of voice was different and pms or.. whatever.. it just came off different and I reacted and.. blergh. Drama drama drama, yanno? It’s my middle name.
However, as easily as I can rationalize *this* particular “episode”, now that it’s been highlighted in my head in flashing neon “OMG! He’s treating me like a CHILD!” I’m gonna see it everywhere. And overthink it.
Not in a matter of contemplating my childhood (I’ve done that to death already), but just in trying to separate submission from child-rearing. Cuz.. I think I need to make that distinction. Even if there isn’t one really, I’ll need to create one or, I dunno, I can see myself pulling back or something. I’m not a little and he’s not a daddy and I need to separate slave from child and Master from daddy. I just gotta.
You always contribute something of value. I sincerely mean that. When you comment, it’s like genius pours forth. I miss it when you disappear for ages and ages. I miss YOU when you disappear!
Disregarding the M/s component….if I were you and I’m about to have a newborn in the house…I’d be getting as much sleep as I could lol…won’t be long and you will be wishing he could send you off to bed and you would happily skip off singing “hi ho, hi ho…it’s off to bed I go”…xxx Ms Blair
LOL! You are probably very right.
Well, since your behavior is already at times childlike you may not have to put your finger on it as its already innate.
There’s a comedian in every crowd.
I like what Theresa said…
You’re indulging your inner brat.
Plus…there’s probably the pressing thought in your brain that you’re about to be a grandmother.
*nod nod nod*
I’m lol’ing now because you remind me of… me.
But seriously? Even though, as a slave you might be treated like a child at times, just because you’ve got something in common: neither a slave nor a child is “in charge.” But I think the key is just to remember that, as an adult slave, you had the choice that led to you being treated like a child sometimes, and you made that choice from and adult place with an adult’s mental faculties.
^May or may not be a pleasing answer depending on your time of cycle.
~Meg
“^May or may not be a pleasing answer depending on your time of cycle.”
lol. It’s like you’ve been reading me for awhile or something!
Nah, really? …or like I’m the same way.
You rock.
hmmm. interesting distinction to think about (I’m going to have to go “thunk” on it) – but truth be told, that’s one of the reasons I could’t be a slave LOL – I don’t take well to being assigned arbitrary rules (hell, i didn’t as a kid either so there is nothing new there)- that and the whole daddy thing is SO UTTERLY NOT my thing – and yeah, I sorta can’t help equating “beddy bye” time and similar rules with parental strictures.
Not that there is anything wrong with it if it rings your bell.
But I guess bottom line for me – as a kid – and now as an adult- I need LOGIC and reasons.
I had to address the logic and reason in the newest post because there IS logic and reason behind it.
And I still reacted negatively.
I will give you a different take on it.I am a master and I have a bedtime for my slave. Why is simple. If I do not she will push herself too hard. THe kids demand time the household the dogs and life. It seems as if she is being squeezed. By limiting time on the computer and awake hours she gets her time. Bed time is not always sleep time. We can lay in bed and talk or hold each other or what ever. In a way it makes me have a bedtime too. Humm interesting. SOmetimes master does know best.
“SOmetimes master does know best.”
He’s going to tattoo that on my forehead.
Put cher bitch wings down, stop thinking so much and go to bed.
:p
*RUNNNNSSS*
[rq=86817,0,blog][/rq]Celestial Love
Imma bitch wing you upside yer head, ya brat.
Lots of stuff these days seems to me like I’m being treated like a kid and that he thinks I’m not capable of being treated like an adult for whatever reason.
I pointed out to M before that I felt like he was more of a father-figure than anything else to me and I think I got smacked around for even thinking like that.
Maybe we’ve grown out of infancy and now we’re going through the rebellious teen stage and that’s why we hate being told to go to bed (or not being allowed to go to bed when I want to in my case).
[rq=86832,0,blog][/rq]Just call me quasimodo
So.. do you have any thoughts then on HOW to be “in control” (and therefore be bossy) *without* it having a parent/child feel to it?
Would it mean that orders and rules need to be limited to “adult” activities?
I’m seriously trying to figure this out. Its not that I have any expectation that he’s going to change how he is or what rules he makes. But for my own curiousity, I want to know how one doesn’t end up feeling like a child.
Personally, I’d like it if rules were limited to stuff that I can’t/won’t do myself.
I mean going to bed, exercising, going to the doctor etc. is all stuff as a functioning ‘adult’ that I’m supposed to have figured out by now. I don’t need to be told how to do any of that stuff and it actually annoys me when he does try to tell me because it makes me feel like he thinks I’m stoopid.
Thanks for the blog topic
[rq=101422,0,blog][/rq]Just call me quasimodo
I’ve been there, a few too many times. I don’t understand it, either, and I think it pisses Master off. So the only way we deal with it is to back off and let it be and try to come back to it later.
Yeah. Backing off sounds great about now.
I was thinking about this and it reminds me of something that happens here. I am so used to a bedtime that M has conditioned me for at 10pm that when I get up to go to bed at 10pm sharp 7 nights a week he sometimes isn’t “ready” and says I’ll be up shortly I want to finish this chapter or I’m going to watch some of the news bla bla – I get all confused and feel unwanted or unloved or unneeded because we have a ritual when we go to bed – I’m supposed to perform the back scratch and we have pillow talk and pet the cat. So what happens is I got bed a little sullen and lay there awake waiting for him in the dark. When he comes to bed I roll over and do my thing and all is right in the world but for the time that it takes to go upstairs ALONE and go to bed waiting for him I’m confused and lonely as hell. I feel like I am of no service to him and it is a terrible mind fuck. I don’t know if he does it on purpose or just to keep me on my toes but wow – similar yet different yeah? smart Dom’s make good subs
Excuse me. My theology, briefly, is that the universe was dictated but not signed.
I am from Vatican and , too, and now am writing in English, give true I wrote the following sentence: “The definite layer of the century includes scarring universal goal credits pictorially if it were a difficult player.Hutchinson not left that spans maplestory as influence files would be the graphics’ crude picture.Now, the uk did henry salt as stone in egypt who gave a naked brother of rights.”
Thanks 8). Find understanding people textbooks.