If you ‘wannabe’ submissive, act like it.
This thread makes me sad. (you’ll need a fetlife account but you don’t have to be a member of that group to read it.)
In summary, it’s a bunch of (mostly) single gals who are looking for a dom bitching about the “wannabes” and the “trolls” who approach them on bdsm dating sites. They’re quite gleeful about this man-bashing they’re doing, seem really proud of themselves about it.
I dunno, call me crazy, but wouldn’t it behoove you in your searches for a dom if you actually acted like a submissive? And, golly, why is it wrong again for a dom to behave dominantly?
Seems like a no-win situation for a single dom. If he makes the approach too aggressively (read:in a dominant manner) then he’s a troll, and if he makes the approach too passively, he’s a wannabe poser.
Master and I met online. I was just as ‘spirited’ (cough) then as I am now. I was also submissive. I can imagine if my reply to His first dominant personality quirk had been something along the lines of calling Him a name, telling Him that “submissive does not equal doormat!”, or to ‘put Him in His place’, then we’d have gone no further in our relationship than that moment.
Sometimes I suspect that some “submissives” join these sites merely for the purpose of collecting man-bashing material. So they can giggle with their subbie-sisters and hold up the *proof* of why they are still single. “See?! It’s not that nobody wants me! Just look at what I have to choose from! Look at these losers. I’m single because I haven’t found anyone worthy of me, NOT because I’m not worthy. So ha! Ha ha! I have proof! He told me to kneel. Stupid wannabe.”
I think if I were a dom in search of a submissive, I would probably give a simple order right off the bat too, purely for the purpose of weeding out the man-bashing wannabe posing as a submissive.
~cunt
Edited to add: Sadly, Fetlife itself is making me sad in it’s entirety. I’m watching the few people I respect and admire trickling out and I’m not even wondering why. I know why. I think I’m not far behind them.
Tags: rants
Uncategorized | kaya | 
Sunday July 20th, 2008 12:42pm
Yeah.
What you said. Exactly.
Surprisingly enough, even though I’ve been in the lifestyle in one form or another for many years now, that’s actually the first message board type place I’ve gotten involved with. Wow. So many posts/comments were just ~*mind boggling*~
Part of me is thankful that I didn’t have those “sisters” looking out for me because I doubt their advice would have even gotten me off the starting line. After seeing a sampling of what’s out there I became even more thankful for the friends I have. You, Danae, and a handful of others who are real, genuine, supportive…and…well…submissive – I had no idea you all were so rare. Heh.
You’re lucky really. It’s extremely sad to watch website after website slide down the same sewer drain.
I agree with you about the “sisters” advice. I’m also thankful that I wasn’t snatched up by some helpful “sister”. All they seem to be able to teach, is how to be the bigger bitch.
You, Danae, and a handful of others who are real, genuine, supportive…and…well…submissive – I had no idea you all were so rare. Heh.
lol.. we’re a dying breed.
I totally hear what you’re sayin’.
And, yanno, when I was looking online I used to get guys that were clueless in my inbox. I did. We all did/do, I’m sure. Some guys just ARE clueless idiots.
BUT…
And this is a big but (though not my big butt)…
I just ignored them. Clicked delete or close on an IM box or whatever.
I didn’t feel the need to make fun of them or even mention them.
*shrug*
That’s just me though.
Now illiterate and ridiculous people on message boards are another story.
I’m enjoying FetLife at the moment just cuz it lets me indulge in my occasional need to argue.
Not that it’ll last.
Eventually I’ll grow tired of repeating myself, tired of the online mentality and pretty well vanish myself, I’m sure.
All BDSM networking sites are pretty much the same because everyone from every other site joins the new ones.
Same people, same shit, same eventual disintegrating into only those who don’t really have a clue participating.
I’m gonna enjoy it while it – and my argumentative mood – lasts.
I know, sometimes I’m in the mood to argue too. But man, does it get frustrating after awhile. And then, for the next 10 days, you’ll repeat that same argument to the next poster and the next poster and the next.. until you leave the group.
Mark my words.
i agree with what you say 100%
When Master died i stumbled into a new relationship simply by being submissive!
Exactly. And I’m so happy you did.
Thoroughly in agreement with your dismay at what FetLife has provided access to. I thought it had real potential, and then it turned into CollarMe, which is too bad. I’ve withdrawn from nearly all my groups there, sadly.
That being said, I’ve been known to snark idiot doms, but equally the idiot submissives.
Seeker
*nod nod nod*
I’m not surprised though, at what’s become of Fetlife. I’ve yet to find a group bdsm site that’s any different.
I still participate on two message boards (Slave Farm and Bondage) but if truth be told I hate them both and only post there because I’m not allowed to post anywhere else. The holier than thou attitudes and show boating and all out disrespect drives me crazy. It’s why I rarely get on IRC and when I do I almost never talk to anyone. It’s why there are only a few blogs I read.
“Slaves” are so disrespectful these days. They’ve taken on the American attitude that they can act and treat people however they feel like it so long as they’re not treating their owner (if they have one) that way. Master would never allow that.
I think that’s why I dislike the BDSM snark site so much. I suck at remembering URLs and I’m too lazy to look it up
You know what I’m talking about, though. Most of what is there isn’t “snark worthy”. It’s just people being themselves. Just because who they are isn’t the type of person you’re</i. (not you specifically, you in general) interested in befriending/fucking/being in a relationship with doesn’t mean they’re not the type of person someone else is interested in.
Anyway… I’m babbling.
They’ve taken on the American attitude that they can act and treat people however they feel like it so long as they’re not treating their owner (if they have one) that way.
I’ve noticed that too. (though I have to ask you – why is it an American attitude?)
Also agreed about the snark sites. I haven’t been there in ages but I know the one you’re talking about. It’s sad.
Mostly because I know many people from other countries and they don’t act that way. It could be that they specifically were taught better growing up and on the whole people from other countries act that way too. But of all the people I’ve known from other countries, I’ve never known one to treat people the way we Americans do.
What if you are not submissive until you have build up that dynamic with a Dom? Being a sub doesn’t mean you have a submissive personality towards everyone.
I see no reason why we should treat Dom or sub with any more or less respect than any other person you meet. Unless you are role playing expecting certain behaviours that imply a difference in power would make me feel you are disrespectful towards a stranger/me.
~Iflie
The problem is they can’t even get close enough to build up that dynamic *because* they won’t be submissive. It’s almost seen as a weakness these days to act like what you say you are!
Profiles start out by saying “I’m a bitch! I’m not a doormat! If you think you can walk all over me, think again asshole! Oh, and btw, I’m a single submissive. Are you interested? But don’t fucking think I’m going to bend over backwards to please you either. You better walk on eggshells cuz I’m watching you, poser! Here’s my number. Holla!”
Seriously? What’s that shit about? And all I’m talking about are basic manners, respect and tiny touch of willingness to submit. I’m not proposing free blow jobs or anything.
We’re talking dating sites here. You want to impress, you want to ‘sell’ yourself, put your best foot forward. You wouldn’t go to a job interview in your pajamas and declare to the boss that you tend to oversleep, that you will NOT fetch coffee and that he better not even think about asking you to work on a Saturday, for fuck’s sake.
But if you did, and if you went on several interviews with exactly that attitude, and then came to the conclusion that the reason you dont have a job is because all the bosses in the world are unreasonable, demanding assholes on a power trip? I’d say the same thing. Act like you *want* the job.
And if you want a dom, act like a submissive.
Why would acting like a “normal” human being stop anyone from getting to know you and see if you are the type of submissive they seek?
If I had acted submissive towards my boyfriend he would not have been interested in befriending me let alone fall in love with me. He has enough people automatically act deferential towards him to find that repulsive or boring. Respect is the first thing you need for a good relationship I feel, from both sides.
There are submissive people, they are not synonymous with a BDSM type sub. If a guy wants a submissive person he can look for that, if he wants a sub the group is much broader. So what if she wont submit until he makes her or if she doesn’t wash his dirty socks? Why do you care what they do with their lives?
They are obviously not looking for a Dom like your Master, they are looking for their own match. Who will either awaken their sub tendencies (with a whip or friendship) or like them for the bitch they are. Being single is a curse, being in a bad relationship is. Acting like something you are not feeling to be attractive will get you in a bad relationship.
I don’t strife to be attractive to everyone, I strive to be honest and myself.
~Iflie
…being singleisn’t a curse*
~Iflie
I think you’re missing the point. Kaya’s not suggesting a submissive start out by licking some self-proclaimed dom’s feet or something. She’s also not suggesting everyone should be under someone exactly like her master. She’s a firm believer in “To each their own.”
But a little common decency would be nice. Not going on a tirade about how undomly someone is… ridiculing the very people these women profess to want to be under… acting like they’re better than the dom in question… those things are disgusting submissive behaviors, slave or not. Hell, they’re disgusting human behaviors… that everyone takes part in at some point in their life but shouldn’t.
And if that’s just who these women are… well then not only do they give submissives a bad name, but they’re the very epitome of the stereotypical bitches most women have fought so hard to avoid turning into. If they’re okay with that… to each their own. But kaya’s right. They’re never going to attract the dom they want by acting that way. Unless, of course, the one they want will keep them on fluffy pink pillows with a pretty princess crown instead of a collar and leash. But from where I sit, that’s just not submission. In any sense of the word.
I was actually responding to Kaya’s opinion that submissives should act submissive. I don’t care about the thread or what some women think about certain Doms or how they see themselves.
I don’t think being submissive requires you to act in any other way than vanilla people to attract your mate. If she doesn’t mean submissive acts like calling a guy Sir(in the BDSM way) or as she mentioned responding to a trial order then what does she mean by it? Not doing those things doesn’t make anyone more of a submissive or even more attractive to their own match.
They wouldn’t want a Dom that wanted them to act like that in the first place.
As for regular respect. I’m Dutch , we call strangers Sir and Madam or Miss until we get permission to do otherwise. Male teachers when I was a kid weer called Meester/Master. All that is normal respectful behaviour to me but when on a BDSM site I would only call people by their SN on purpose because it would indicate more than just basic respect, it would imply a power difference and I go into any meeting on perfectly equal grounds.
I don’t think that has anything to do with me being a sub. Though I might get more submissive urges if I like the admire someone, which they would pick up on.
~Iflie
‘strife; is a noun, no one can strife to be anything.
‘strive’ is the word you are looking for.
Your kindly word police
“Profiles start out by saying “I’m a bitch! I’m not a doormat! If you think you can walk all over me, think again asshole! Oh, and btw, I’m a single submissive. Are you interested? But don’t fucking think I’m going to bend over backwards to please you either. You better walk on eggshells cuz I’m watching you, poser! Here’s my number. Holla!””
^^^
Rants like this are what make you my favorite! lol
I think I’m gunna cook up a post over at my place about this so I don’t hijack yours.
Danielle
As someone who has been bombarded by odd inquiries and inviduals who I clearly stated I wasn’t interested in (those over a certain age and longer than a certain distance), I can relate to what these women are saying. I agree they could be more tactful about it but having been there, I also understand the need to vent about something that frustrates you (which is what it seemed to start out as and then got carried away). I feel like the gift of a person’s submission is earned, not assumed. I wouldn’t be submissive to *everyone*, just my dom if I had one. For me to submit, there has to be an emotional connection and without that it feels like role-playing so no, I’m not going to automatically be submissive to some random guy (nice or not) who contacts me. I will by no means be rude, but I also won’t use sir or master after every sentence (yes, a lot of guys out there do ask that right off the bat).
And see, for me, if I were a dom on the look out, using Sir would be my litmus test. I wouldn’t even ask for it, in my opinion, it should come natural. I would expect, without question, that a submissive would use Sir without even having to think about it.
It should be the default to show respect, not something someone has to earn in some magical way.
It’s funny, really. Submissive’s get all in a knot about being respected, and being treated respectfully and with dignity yet they don’t seem to be willing to offer that same courtesy to a dominant, at least not until he’s *earned* it.
So what if the dominant has that same attitude? He/she isn’t going to be or act dominant until the submissive has earned it, has shown that she’s worthy of it? Seems to me like both sides would just stand there waiting for the other to perform the secret earning-of-the-respect ritual. Nothing would ever move forward.
Seriously, it baffles me. I just don’t get it.
“It should be the default to show respect, not something someone has to earn in some magical way.”
In my life, inside BDSM and outside of it, this is the way I act. Everybody ‘deserves’ to be shown a certain amount of respect. What they do with that respect (increasing or decreasing it by their actions with me and others) is based on their actions, but they all START with a certain amount of respect.
I was raised by my grandparents, and so have ‘old fashioned manners’ (lots of people tell me that). So maybe it’s just the way I was raised.
The whole concept of ‘earning my respect’ just doesn’t seem rational to me. Like you say, how is anybody going to approach you (general you) if you act like a bitch to everybody? It boggles my mind.
Why does respect *have* to mean using sir? I would like to think I’m respectful to most everyone I come in contact with, even in the vanilla world (though I’m sure I fail at times) despite the fact I don’t address them in a formal way.
On the net it’s easy to get into semantics about what words mean and usually after much discussion people realize they were thinking much the same thing all along so I’m really sorry if it feels like I’m being nit-picky. That being said, I feel like “respect” and “submission” are being used interchangably and I don’t feel like that’s applicable. In my opinion respect should be shown to *everyone*. But if one isn’t comfortable with it, they shouldn’t be expected to be submissive to everyone. And I don’t think that automatically makes a person any less submissive at heart.
I appreciate the word “Sir”. I would like to think a submissive would call me Sir, unless/until I prove that I am not worthy of respect.
There are many men who are ignorant and want say they are Doms, because they think it is easier to get laid that way. There are people who have no idea that discipline requires self discipline. I have no idea how to find that balance. Saying that a man is mean and thus unfit to be a Dom does sort of boggle the mind. I assume there are many things one is looking for in a Dom. I am glad not to have to try to figure out which stranger I meet online has any of them.
That being said, a submissive who was too snarky is saying a lot about herself. If one is looking for a Dominant, it might be helpful to unsheath the claws until they are proven to be needed.
It’s worth noting that calling someone sir or madam in every day conversation is relatively common in the US but in other English speaking countries – the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Ireland it’s practically unheard of.
But it’s not unheard of in the bdsm realm.
true, what I’m getting at is that it’s a much bigger step for someone from other countries to make than for someone from the US. There’s more significance attached to it. Most non-US people would probably equate calling someone Sir with calling someone Master.
Agreed. I would never call anyone sir in ordinary conversation, and for a dominant, I would not call him Sir unless I was scening with him, or he’s taken me as his submissive.
Until that time, a dominant is treated respectfully by me, in the same way as I treat subs respectfully.. or anyone that I meet.
I do not defer to someone just because they’re a dominant, but neither am I disrespectful.
just my newbie two cents worth…i am generally polite, and i am southern so i do tend to say “sir” a lot. I have also had some decent Doms i have spoken with comment that they were pleased that i didn’t start “sir”ing them right off the bat and bowing at their feet, that i was just polite and respectful and treated them as if they were any other person. That is not to say that i don’t ‘sir’ everyone from time to time..even my son who’s 7 hear’s me say “yes sir” to him because it is polite…
I think there might be a fine line between being yourself, being polite and being ridiculously subserviant to every one you come across online who says they are dominant.
cyndi
I find the “Sir” or “Ma’am” usage interesting not because I necessarily disagree that it’s a good way to tell submissives, but just because my master hates the term “Sir” and won’t let me use it to refer to him, much less any other doms or Masters.
When I’m talking to Doms on line, I don’t leap to use Sir, but I do use an extra level of formality in my direct speech. Oh, I’ll tease and be myself, but I greet them formally, I tend to say farewell formally, I ask if I can join in a conversation where I wouldn’t otherwise.
Same good manners I try to use everywhere, just a bit ‘fancier.’ It seems to go over well. *shrug* In exchange I’ve gotten polite interest and respect for my boundaries. Go figger.
The wannabe Doms out there are just too dangerous (to one’s self-esteem) and numerous to be taken casually. They do have to earn the right to be called “Sir,” just as I have to earn the right to be taken seriously as a submissive.
However, the real Doms out there don’t have to work very hard to earn that right.
The motto I always use is “submissive, not doormat.”
I honestly think that if a wannabe (online) dom is potentially dangerous to someone’s self-esteem, that someone probably has more issues to worry about than whether the dom is genuine or not.
Oh, that’s bullshit kaya, and you know it. A lot of submissive women who are new to the lifestyle are very nervous, and rightfully so. An asshole “Dom” can do lots of damage to such a woman.
Normally I admire and respect your writing here. But this is one case where you’re off the mark.
Oops! Sorry kaya… that should have been addressed to “blush!”
Actually, no, I don’t think it’s bullshit at all. Of course people are nervous entering something new, but geez, whatever happened to common sense and self-responsibility? I don’t believe that it is anymore ‘dangerous’ for someone who runs into a wannabe online dom as it is for someone who runs into a man who is faking who he is. Checking the person out, watching for red flags, and not being so desperate (or horny) as to immediately meet without doing so is irresponsible – but not at all limited to D/s (in my opinion of course).
And I’m glad you admire my writing, but not sure how you read it?
You know that I bailed out of the Fetlife morass pretty early on, so I’ve not seen this exchange, but I can just imagine…
And — I understand the frustration that comes from dealing with HNG’s and Dom Wannabe’s. I’ve ranted about that business on more than one occasion (on my site which is “sort of” private).
From my perspective, you can be frustrated with people who clearly haven’t got a shred of proper upbringing, without consequently being rude and disrespectful to everyone you meet. I also don’t think that being strong, independent-minded, opinionated, and all that other “non-submissive” kind of stuff means that you have to go out into the world with your chin out and your dukes up. Where’s the harm in greeting and treating people with respect and deference. If someone turns out to be “not it,” then it is relatively easy to manage to dump and/or ignore them.
And for the record, I have the same issue with vanilla women who get together with their girlfriends and bash on the men they are married to. What? Relationships are best built on courtesy and respect and openess. It costs so very little.
Something I find amusing about your blog is how frequently you judge other people in the same general, lazy way you rail against people for judging you. It’s a backhanded compliment, because I enjoy your blog very much. Just think it’s funny how you make such sweeping generalizations in one post and then rant about people doing it in another. What works for one is never going to be the only way things work. Enjoy what works for you, I say.
I know I do. I hate being judged and find it easy to judge others. *shrug* I make no excuses for it. Hell, I’m judging you right now for making an anonymous comment.
They can go whine about me judging them on their own journals.. just like I do..lol
Ya know, I have deleted my membership in that group four times in the past three days, only to rejoin just to to add a comment. It’s bugging the crap out of me, but it’s like a train wreck I can’t stop looking at.
That particular thread wasn’t even on the “looking” group. Why oh why? I was embarassed for the ones who posted. Seriously. What in the world? Do they all honestly think they are such good catches? Ok ::deep breath::. Anyway. I found it rude.
The use of ‘sister’ did not go unnoticed, Kaya.
Blush
I met my Sir through Collarme and we’ve been together for about 4 and 1/2 years. We were married on July 4th of this year so Collarme wasnt a complete waste!
I never made it a habit to poke fun at the “wannabe” doms.
Since I started Collarme at the age of 18 I had a lot of messages so I just started a sorting procedure.
1.) If you find it too tedious to spell the word YOU and you simply type u. Then I’m not really confident you’ll be able to handle me. (I’m a bit of a handful.) lol.
2.) If you start your correspondence with me like… hey slut u want to be own’d by a dominate? (yes I purposely spelled that wrong..ha ha) Then perhaps we won’t get along well…not because you called me slut but because I feel like its essential to make a proper introduction.
I mean I was interested in a life long thing not a fly by night one time deal.
So I was on collarme for maybe a year and I found him. *beams* =oD
I don’t do lifestyle message boards anymore….WAY too much drama.
Have a great weekend everyone!
Kaya i totally agree…..Also here lately i feel like there are a lot of “subs, slaves,bottoms” that don’t have a submissive bone in their bodies.
At one time I use to think using the word Sir was a form of respect. Now looking back I really don’t think calling someone Sir is a sign of a true submissive or not.
When I’m at the grocery store I’ll call someone Sir, at work I use Sir all the time (mostly because I can’t remember everyones name). Often it’s nothing more than a generic form of address. Heck I’ve been called Ma’am on more occassions then I’d like to admit but the term doesn’t make me think the person using it (A) is submissive (B) has respect for me (C) or thinks I’m a dominant personality… I think as submissives there are several ways we can conduct ourselves that express our submissive nature upon a first meeting rather than the titles of address we use. Just my thoughts…
Hope you’re all having a great night!
It’s interesting to me to see this from a different perspective. I primarily interact on spanking-centered sites rather than the broader BDSM sites, so I’m used to seeing this type of ridicule of “wannabe Doms.” And honestly haven’t thought much of it since most of the spanking crowd seem to classify themselves as a “bottom” or “spankee” or “brat”(myself included) rather than a submissive, so a guy popping up to say “kneel to your Master” or something similar isn’t likely to get much more than an eyeroll or a laugh. Because most of us do not identify as submissive. We tend to say I’m a SPANKEE, not a SLAVE ya jerk, lol.
However, if I did identify as such and were looking for a Dominant, I can’t see being all offended if the guys in the BDSM crowd acted…..uh, dominant. They don’t have to be asses about it, especially still at the meet-and-greet level, but I wouldn’t be shocked to receive a few bossy messages. For some people submissive DOES mean doormat……so why not just say you (not you, kaya)aren’t interested in that kind of thing rather than acting all put out that this guy you’ve never met hasn’t read your mind to know EXACTLY what you are looking for in a guy. How are these guys supposed to know the second they come across you if you are the type of submissive that wants to be tossed in the dirt on first contact and will think he’s a pussy if he doesn’t demand respect……or the type that wants to be woo’d into submission?
I say it in the spanking scene as well….the whole scene seems to be a lot more unfair for the men, they are expected to read minds and then they catch hell if they get it wrong.
I’m feeling variously bored and disturbed by Fetlife too, after being really, really excited with it at the beginning. I went to that particular thread and, like a few others I’ve seen, it seemed like the posters were often just trying to impress everyone by how often they are hit on.
I remember being blown away by how many men were interested in me when I went online, after years of being invisible to my husband and after our divorce being told by several people that I was never going to find a guy who wanted to be with me at my age, with children. So the attention was flattering, and I think maybe some of them are still surprised and happy about that. But it’s kind of a weird way to celebrate it, by slagging off the guys who are emailing them.
Richard and I spent weeks getting to know each other (emails, phone calls, IM) before he began to dominate me. If he had started off that way, I probably would have pulled away. Similarly, if I had started out calling him “Sir” he probably would have pulled away. I don’t feel submissive to anyone but him, and he’s not interested in dominating anyone but me.
I know that wouldn’t work for other people, and I understood when other men tried to jump right in by dominating me, but it still made me pull away. And there are some really weird and aggressive people out there too (you know the “Anal Princess” guy, right?)
xoAmy
PS but I DO like the “Domestic Servitude” group. Already gotten some great links and tips from them and everyone seems so nice.
Oh! Me too! And the WD-40 thread was hilarious.
Thanks -just checked out this group, its great.
there are some groups there that I’m still enjoying. Mostly, because the membership is small…and they contain people like you, jakeskajira and carrieann who are willing to call people out on their bullshit. I can see though how it would get old fast. There was a post today in the “comfy chair” “they’re doing it for the wrong reason” that got my shorts all in a knot and I didn’t even have the energy to jump into the fray. I’m going to stick to the smaller groups, the ones where intelligent conversations stay intelligent for the most part.
I understand completely. Rapeboard has really sank to new lows recently.
“See?! It’s not that nobody wants me! Just look at what I have to choose from! Look at these losers. I’m single because I haven’t found anyone worthy of me, NOT because I’m not worthy. So ha! Ha ha! I have proof! He told me to kneel. Stupid wannabe.”
Personally, if I had been a dom or a switch looking for a sub to dom (in particularly a female sub), I wouldn’t choose a female sub with that attitude. That comes off to me being highly disrespectful and on the offensive.
I mean…if you’re the type of sub that doesn’t want a 24/7 thing, mention it. They don’t have to sound offensive and disrespectful on their profiles about it because that’s definitely going to turn doms from any gender off. I’m not a lifestyle, and I make that clear on any profile. I say “I’m purely a kink submissive, that’s it. I can’t do the 24/7 deal.” And yeah…making a post or thread dedicated to bashing male doms is going to do nothing but make them remain single because they come across as being disrespectful.
IMO, respect is a huge key to have when involve in anything with BDSM
I can sympathize a small bit with them because I’ve had my share of disrespectful submissive men, and a few dominant men, show up online, in email and in person spewing some of the most ill mannered crap you’d ever want to hear or read.
As for me, when I was first searching I didn’t open up a conversation with a submissive by instantly ordering them to call me by some title or perform a task. That really doesn’t prove anything to me as to what kind of submissive they are and I feel it doesn’t prove anything to them as to what kind of dominant I am.
I’ve found that what works for me is just talking. To have a conversation that allows us to relax and ask both D/s and non D/s questions of each other. And you know, it is usually the non D/s questions that tell me what kind of a submissive that person might be.
Oh and I wanted to add…..another thing that isn’t fair. Why is it ok for there to be threads on the spanking and BDSM forums bashing the guys (or Doms/Tops whatever)?
At least on the spanking forums there would be a huge uproar if some Top had the nerve to DARE post a thread bashing subs.
Even on things like appearance…..it seems ok if some women post something like “ew, I don’t want some old fat guy spanking me!” yet a man gets torn apart if he says something like he’s just not attracted to heavy women. Suddenly he’s a complete pig and gets ripped to shreds.
A lot of people just don’t seem to get that politeness and respect goes both ways.
I think this is the most assanine post you have ever written. While there are parts of it that are correct, you lead everyone to assume that if you are submissive, you must treat every Dom with respect. Puhlease! We don’t know anything about these people other than what they portray via the internet. So are you saying that just because someone SAYS they are Dom, we should take them at their word? People above are correct… you go in with that kind of simplistic mentality and you are going to get abused and, quite possibly, much worse.
Now, if you are in a social setting, and you know who the players are, their roles, etc. then yes, I agree with what you posted. But online? Give me a fucking break!!! These could be serial murderers we are dealing with under the guise of a “Dominant”. I think any authoratative, respectful, nurturing Dominant would understand ANY sub/slave’s hesitance to accept them at face value. Really Tess, not even YOU can be that shallow and simplistic so as to allow anyone to just believe whatever it is som “wannabe” Dominant tells us. Tell that to your children. Good advice on this one… really. What the hell were you thinking? You usually have very insightful advice. This was just over the top WRONG!!!
you lead everyone to assume that if you are submissive, you must treat every Dom with respect.
Yes, that’s exactly what I think. I’ve stated things similar to this a hundred times.
I’m not talking about running over to every “dom’s” house the second he contacts you to give him a blow job, ffs. I’m talking about politeness and manners and not labelling a dom as a wannabe poser merely because he frequents a dating site and behaves in a dominant manner.
So are you saying that just because someone SAYS they are Dom, we should take them at their word?
Well gee. Why not? Isn’t he supposed to take the submissive at her word? God forbid he actually give an order to see if she *gasp* submits to it. I mean isnt that what these “submissives” are bitching about? How exactly does one prove they are a dom if they can’t act dominant? Keep in mind that these so-called submissives are specifically *looking* for a dominant, so why the shock when one acts like a dom? Its bullshit if you ask me.
He might be an abuser? Really? Now there’s some simplistic crap for you. The dom who spends months wooing your scared little ass into submission might be an abuser too. What’s your point? They ALL might be abusers, including the bitchy little “subby” sitting behind her monitor. Ain’t nobody here suggesting we all jump into a live-in relationships at the first email. I am suggesting that if one wants to get past the first email, perhaps a change in attitude is necessary.
If not, hey, more power to you. You’ll attract exactly what you present. Go on with your bad self if that’s what you want.
To be fair, I have seen “Doms” online that are very aggressive to everyone. As a Dom, I would think it also proper to show respect. Some subbies are taken. That does not mean that you can order them around, to your heart’s content. I would never show up and start trying to Dominate everyone. I think just doing a few minutes’ diligence can let one know who is looking, and who is just hanging around to socialize with sister/brother subbies.
An example I like to give is in the old yahoo chat rooms. A Dom who asked if I wanted to let him beat me was obviously
a)Not willing to put in the time to see if I was a looking
b)Not willing to put in the time to see if I was female
c)Lacked the self control to figure out what the situation was before shotgunning orders
That says a lot to me about this man. A Dom can feel free to be a little more subtle IMHO. Feel a potential sub out. Ask her if she is looking. Say “Hi”. I get annoyed when a man just expects everything to be his toy.
“Go on with your bad self if that’s what you want.”
your usual response when you realize you are wrong. I give respect when respect is earned, not just on someone’s say-so, ESPECIALLY online. You of ALL people should know better. How shallow minded HAVE you become? I get that yes, if you truly ARE dominant, one should be shown that respect. However, online Doms are a whole different dynamic. Some of these assholes DEMAND “respect” with absolutely no experience under their belt, so to say. They want to hurt women not dominate them for growth. They are the rule NOT the exception. To adhere to YOUR way, many, MANY people would get hurt. It works both ways, I get that, but again, you are WAY, WAY off. If the newbies listened to you, God help them and what might happen with that oh-so-very-simplistic advice.
In the real world, I agree with 100%, WHEN YOU KNOW WHO THE PEOPLE ARE!!!! When it has been verified, or a Dom has shown who he really is, what he is looking for. You cannot POSSIBLY demand submission from someone you have never met, over an email, or a text message or an IM. It takes time, TRUST (something which you cannot POSSIBLY attain in a day or two) and chemistry. I will NEVER automatically give credence to anyone CLAIMING to be a Dom online simply because they tell me to.
And for the record, it is alright to admit you are wrong sometimes. We all are.
I don’t think I’m wrong. Soooo..
“your usual response when you realize you are wrong. I give respect when respect is earned, not just on someone’s say-so, ESPECIALLY online. You of ALL people should know better. How shallow minded HAVE you become?”
May I suggest that you take your attention from a blog that is obviously rubbing you the wrong way and put it somewhere else that would make you feel better? And a reminder: It isn’t your job to police other people nor tell them what they should say on their own blog.
You’ve obviously had bad experiences in life and Kaya’s opinion has just as obviously struck a nerve for you. I’m sorry for that. But if you want to earn respect, going on someone’s blog and telling them they’re wrong and shallow minded isn’t quite the way to do it.
I wish you well in attracting that dream guy you’re looking for. It’s going to take awhile with that attitude which, IMHO, is probably why you’ve been attracting losers that you can’t respect.
Kaya,
i understand your frustration, but some of us “newbies” need gals like you and CarrieAnn to set us straight and to befriend us especially if we can’t get out to the local scene much. If all the ‘good’ people go..we are left with the wannabe’s and the idiots.
please don’t leave us!
cyndi
kaya……
i have been reading with interest your take on Fet Life – and others’ opinions as well……..
i took the liberty today of writing John (whom Sir and i know ) and pointing out to him that some things were not going exactly according to plan on Fet Life…….
i did not mention any names.. just pointed out some . .shall we say.. dissatisfied customers opinions..
i also have made a suggestion to him that perhaps he should allow some moderated groups….. and have offered to host one……..
we will see what happens.. but i certainly hope that IF John ok’s a moderated group and i do indeed get permission from Sir to host one.. that you will be one of the first to accept my invitation to join…… i honestly believe you have a lot to offer
morningstar (owned by Warren)
You know I’d be happy to.
That is THE most pathetic bit of advice you have EVER given on your blog. You really should be ashamed, really. So your advice to any submissive out there, new or otherwise, would be trust absolutely anyone out there that tells you that you should. Funny really as that is the worst advice you could have ever given anyone. Good Job… Keep up the great work. Try to keep in mind that there are newer, more inexperienced people here than you that actually HEED your advice. God help them, and God help you if something bad happens to you because they listened to your nonsense and someone fucking hurt them. Good for you, you did real good on this one. You should be proud. And for the record… you ARE judgmental…. you judge everyone by your standards… your standards aren’t even that great, even if your pics are… Hope you can sleep tonite if some newbie took your advice and some self proclaimed “Dom” decided to hurt her. I am not impressed… at all.
What is with you people? So treating people with respect and/or common decency equates with trusting them? Treating people with respect and/or common decency guarantees you will be abused? Give me a break.
If a “newbie” reads this post and walks away with the idea that he/she should immediately fall to his/her knees for any self-proclaimed dom/me they just met on the net and rush to the dom/mes side without a second guess then the submissive truly is a moron (because that’s not even close to what kaya’s saying here) and survival of the fittest comes into play. Perhaps that’s harsh. But it’s the truth. And that you can’t see that leaves to question your ability to see passed the end of your own self-righteous beliefs. I apologize if that sounds rude but I call ‘em as I see them.
Everyone, not just submissives, should treat everyone they interact with, stranger or not, with at least some measure of common decency and respect. That we don’t anymore is why the world is in such decline. Stranger does not equal enemy and everyone has the ability to become a serial killer if pushed the right way.
Seriously. Do they not teach reading comprehension skills anymore? What is wrong with these people?
Stranger does not equal enemy and everyone has the ability to become a serial killer if pushed the right way.
I don’t know, this comment kinda makes my font afraid. The next screenname to message me could be a killer! Protect me!
We are talking about adults right? Adults that (I would hope anyway?) are able to care for themselves offline? Like, umm work? Perhaps raise children too? Maybe even *gasp* manage their own household?
This reeks of the thought that submissives are weak and unable to make their own decisions. And to suggest that Kaya has that strong of an influence based on her blog (which btw, I greatly enjoy reading – thank you!) is rather condenscending to the new submissives.
Repeat yourself much? Just how many comments are you going to leave? The more you write, the more ridiculous you sound.
You don’t agree with me. I don’t agree with you. You’re not going to change my opinion and I’m not going to change your’s. You’re wasting your time here.
And for the record… save your rant, there is nothing you can say to fix this one. I don’t care if it is “your” blog or not. You basically just told every women out there, where new, or at this scene for years, that whatever a “Dom” tells you, you should respect. It is hard for any submissive, especially one learning, to trust a REAL Dominant, let alone some puke of a poser on line who has absolutely NO FUCKING CLUE what being a TRUE Dominant is all about.
Seriously, you threw me on this one. Like I said, I hope no one gets hurt in ANY way because they looked up to you and you told them to show respect. Dontcha think that before you show respect you should know to whom you are deferring to? How can that POSSIBLY be done online, in this day and age. You royally fucked this one up. FIX IT!!!!
some puke of a poser on line who has absolutely NO FUCKING CLUE what being a TRUE Dominant is all about.
Thanks for proving my point.
I hope no one gets hurt in ANY way because they looked up to you
I’m nobody’s babysitter. I’m not teaching or leading or mentoring. If someone gets hurt because of something I said – stupid should hurt, is all I have to say. Personal responsibility is seriously lacking in people today.
Dontcha think that before you show respect you should know to whom you are deferring to? How can that POSSIBLY be done online, in this day and age
Considering the success of dating sites online, I’d say it’s done quite well.
FIX IT!!!!
There is nothing to fix. I don’t think I’m wrong.
“…stupid should hurt, is all I have to say. Personal responsibility is seriously lacking in people today.”
Amen, sistah.
After reading these comments I can see that there is clearly some confusion about civility and respect and obedience and submission.
A certain two of these things are pretty much required if you are to have any form of positive social interaction with people.
Those of you who know what these two things are are aware that you know what these two things are.
Those of you who do not know what these two things are are not aware that you do not know what these two things are.
Have you ever thought that more people might take some of stuff a little bit more serious if you put your name instead of just anonymous? What are you ashamed of? Why are you in hiding? Kaya and her Master know exactly who you are because your ip shows up. Easy to judge when you are hiding behind………..anonymous.
At what point did we lose the ability within the English language to utter the words, “No, Sir. Thank you, Sir?”
Submissives are not de facto idiots. One can be respectful without stooping to the level of stupid.
I see no problem with kaya’s take on things. Newbie or experienced player, if you want to come across as a submissive, then act like a submissive. Please and thank you are simple courtesies that most of us learned in early childhood. Some of us, depending on when and where we grew up, learned Sir and Ma’am in the same context. It doesn’t mean I’m going to follow you home and blow you. It means I am going to treat you with simple courtesy.
Why is it that every single example of a moron submissive* includes giving a blow job as an example?
*Not that submissives are morons, I’m talking of a person who primarily is a moron, also claims to be submissive. Some of my best friends are submissives, and are NOT morons.
You do realize, that you not only completely misconstrued everything Kaya said, but you also lost all credibility by throwing out words such as “real” and “true”.
You seem to be equating “showing respect” with “being a doormat”. That’s not what Kaya was saying, and if you would just actually read the words she wrote, and without engaging whatever buttons you have pressed, and continue to press, you’d see that.
Oh, and replying to somebody’s blog, to bitch them out for something you don’t agree with, and not having the balls to sign your name? I’m really surprised that Kaya has given you as much *respect* to answer you as she has.
Oy what to say.
1) There are good Dominants out there. There are also trolls.
2) There are good submissives out there. There are also wannabes who … hell I don’t know what they are looking for. Maybe they are just woman who like kinky sex and a little corporal punishment from time to time. Or like topping from the bottom and calling it “submission”. I don’t know, I’ve seen a lot of “submissives” who have more rules about what the dominant is supposed to do rather than what they are supposed to do.
Yes you should be careful of who you talk to, but that doesn’t mean you have to be rude from the get go. You can respectfully tell a troll to get lost just as easily as you can be rude about it. Most aren’t that persistent. Some are easier to spot than others. And it doesn’t matter who you are, you still need to be careful about anyone you meet online.
It is my opinion, and only my opinion that respect should be given until it is lost. For me, once a person has lost my respect it is near impossible to regain it. But I will give even the most dubious creature respect until I see s/he doesn’t deserve it. And then I can still be polite.
I know they were talking to you but I’ve had things like this: Hope you can sleep tonite if some newbie took your advice and some self proclaimed “Dom” decided to hurt her. aimed at me as well. So I responded. People who enable people to pass responsibility for their own actions off on someone else seriously piss me off. Almost as much as the people who refuse to take responsibility for their own actions.
There ya go… so much for anonymity… Sorry I just don’t have a screen name here. now that you have my name do you feel better? You are still wrong!!! The worst part is you know it. Get over it and hopefully no one gets hurt on your bad advice.
agreed. however, if new people come here reading you, you should consider how your thoughts and words may affect their outcome. You made it sound like every “self proclaimed” Dom should be shown respect. Fuck that. If they are truly REALLY a Dominant, in every sense of the word, they wouldn’t demand, in fact, it would never OCCUR to them, to demand respect from someone online, if they hadn’t already gotten to know them.
Again, what the hell are you thinking? Don’t get me wrong, I have been reading you forever, and while your basic principles apply, in the everyday world, or with people you know, this time you are WAY off the mark.
No offense, but she never said a sub should automatically obey a online dom. There, as someone already pointed out, is a huge difference between obedience and respect. She’s saying that these women aren’t respectful, especially when they have a thread that bashes men and states that these doms are fakes. Who the hell is one to say who is a true dom/sub/switch?
If a submissive doesn’t like an approach of a certain dom, you don’t be disrespect by bashing the shit out of him. You either tell them you’re not interested or you ignore them if they don’t leave you alone. If I was a dom, I wouldn’t have any of these women as a submissive because they are disrespectful. Hell, if I was a vanilla, I wouldn’t date any of these women by the way they talk about other men. They’re single because they are disrespectful…not because they don’t automatically obey someone.
Oh, and Kaya shouldn’t be held accountable if someone does take her advice. Everyone who reads this blog is an adult. They have their own minds and they should be able to determine what is right for them. They should be responsible for their own actions rather than pin it on someone. Seriously…I agree with Kaya that people seem to lack self responsibility these days.
Finding another dom online isn’t really that different than looking for a regular vanilla to date. You usually try to get to know someone online for a while (whether it’s several months to year) to see if their little dark side comes out. If they are really a troll or someone that is dark, it will come out eventually. And meeting a dom that turns out to be an abusive asshole can pretty much be applied to vanillas, hence why it’s wise to get to know someone online for a while.
Oh, and I am a novice submissive and I even know Kaya wasn’t talking about automatically obeying an online dom. She was talking about respect, which is something I remarked earlier.
Needingmore,
Okay, I’m a little confused. Just where exactly did Kaya say that a sub should OBEY an online Dom? I’ve reread the entire post, comments and all, and I don’t see her saying that anywhere. In fact, I see places where she says you should NOT obey an online Dom from day one. What she does say is that a sub should show them respect. You know, being polite, not bashing them behind their backs (or in front of them either). You can say NO repsectively, for example:
Dom: Use “sir” when talking to me
Sub: I’m sorry, I reserve “sir” for the dominant I choose to submit to. We haven’t gone that far yet.
See, the sub can decline to odey while being polite and respectful.
The other issue I have when you say, “In the real world, I agree with 100%,” as if meeting someone in person at some “safe” venue is a guarentee that he won’t go psycho on you. Do you know what the single most common statement about psychos is from the people who knew them? “He seemed like such a nice man.” In person Dom searches are just as filled with potential danger as online ones. Weirdos and psychos join clubs and such just like they join online communities (some are even nice people for real
).
Seriously, give it a rest. Kaya has NOT said what you’re accusing her of, and only the terminally stupid or the chronicaly argumentative would persist in claiming otherwise. Kaya advises respect as a tool to facilitate communication, not blind obedience to strangers.
Dave
I’ve been reading Kaya’s blog for a few months now, and I love it because she’s no doormat. She is what she chose to be. She is also smart, funny and in case smart doesn’t register, not stupid. I don’t think this post is telling any newbie or wannabe sub -of which I may be one, but I’m not sure if I’m not one of those girls who just likes it rough and to be bossed around- although I have a friend who’s pretty willing to help me find out
- to put unreasonable trust in anyone. It’s just saying “don’t be a bitch.” And I can’t see what’s wrong with that. That’s valid advice for any woman, whether she’s looking for a fuckbuddy, boyfriend or master.
And that’s my .02 from the viewpoint of a uniformed little outsider.
fetlife had potential. i still have some hope, though, but i really hope the last of the sane rational people don’t walk out.
what i liked most was that it wasnt the meat market, it was really about bdsm. but then you get folks who are either a) trolling for a partner despite the non-meatmarket attitude, or b) just holier than thou and hoping to feel bigger than their britches by putting down others.
i wish there was a place for rational (and hot and fun and random) conversation with kinky people.
maybe there just isnt one.
i have no standing or enough of a reputation to voice an opinion in any specific area. HOWEVER, it ain’t never stopped me before…
i’ve only been in a Master/slave relationship for a little over a year. i was NOT looking for one – but He/it found me. We met online, communicated online, then via phone, then met after 3 months. i was “His” completely when we met in person, but i will say that i probably loved Him before i paid eyes on Him. He IS my Master. i am His slave. We see each other about 4-5 days on average a month. i take His orders and He controls much of my daily life without micromanaging.
*SHeewww…. i said all of that to say this… i both admire and need experienced submissives and slaves! i highly value both their opinion and their willingness to write and talk about their lives.
Wonderful, strong, *funny, teaching, submissive women like kaya and danea and carrie ann have taught me so much about being in this life and about myself.
Do i want to be “just like them?” Well, hell no! i’m me! I can’t take the pain kaya can, i don’t have the heart of servitude that denea has and i don’t have the fire that carrie ann has…. but i pull pieces of them and learn and it makes me a better slave.
Fetlife is a great way to discuss so many topics… i’ve learned a lot of specifics things. Sometimes in “blogland” we choose our own topics and although they are the same coincidently sometimes, it’s so nice to gather all the ideas in a neat little package sometimes to read.
Because of that – i hope that we can salvage parts (groups) that can still be beneficial to “us.”
i hope i’m not hijacking your post to say a cheer for Fet – but value you (and so many others opinions) and it seems such a good way for us all to get together and bitch about all the other bitches out there!!!
(hope this is making sense, Master told me to take an ambien and get some sleep – i was i the middle of this, so He said i could finish… i finished my thoughts, i just hope they make sense!!)
kJ
browneyedgirl
In my view…the problem started with the endless threads and jokes about the “true” subs/slaves. For several years I have been reading about how ..there is no true anything…it’s what you want it to be. I disagree with this… most submissives online today …are not …submissive. BDSM has been around a long time… it used to mean something to be submissive. You may be new and inexperienced but you would still act in a manner of respect toward a Dominant until there was a reason not to. (yes yes … you are also expected to use your brain and gut feeling) but if there is no protocol whatsoever ..then where is the benchmark to even begin exploring a D/s relationship. I can be mouthy and sarcastic but I appreciate that there is a time and place for it (*ok my lord….most of the time I do*)
Aren’t “wannabees” just people? maybe not for you but maybe perfect for someone else.
I find the ranting and sport like arguments and tirades on fetlife tiresome. I was enjoying the interaction of “real” slaves… and yes, I do believe there are true and real slaves… the real doesnt come from how your slavery presents itself, the acts or how long you have been one…it’s in the attitude and the intent.
I’m glad to know I’m not the only one that felt they were witnessing the demise of the fetlife venue. We can all just stay here feeding off kaya’s nail on the head words of wisdom..and await her book. Erma Bombeck for the warped.
I found your blog a while back on TSR, which I rarely visit anymore, and then checked out FetLife when you started mentioning it. I’m not very social as it is, but I disagree with so much that is said on the site I can hardly find places to post unless I’m looking to argue – and for me, that’s just not fun. I’m not sure where to look for people like me anymore, but FL isn’t it.
It’s really why I keep coming back to read your blog – my way is different from your way, but I don’t feel like your way is being pushed on me when you talk about it. I don’t feel that on FL – I feel like I’m doing it wrong or something.
I haven’t been on fetlife so I can’t comment on that specifically. But based on the comments here, I would say that it’s simply a reflection of society – unfortunately. It seems that people are more rushed and more rude than they used to be. Common courtesy doesn’t seem to be as, well, common.
But everyone has to find their own way and what works for them.
Back when I used to smoke, I remember walking into a convenience store and asking “May I please have a pack of cigarettes?” to the clerk. She asked me what I said so I repeated it, thinking she hadn’t heard me. She said she couldn’t remember the last time someone actually said “May I …” to her. I didn’t say that because I’m submissive. I did it simply because it’s common courtesy. I do the same thing when ordering a meal in a restaurant … again simply because it’s common courtesy.
Now, when I was meeting dominants online, I never called them “Sir” right away, though I was always courteous and respectful because I believe in treating people that way. (The title Sir has a special meaning to me and I feel it losing its meaning and value if I use it on everyone … but that’s my feelings and not something I push on others.) The men I became involved with over time appreciated that so it worked for me.
Sir has banned me from reading threads on ‘submissive women’ because it gets me so angry and uptight, so I couldn’t read what you linked to
! I just hate all the viciousness and sneering that goes on there. Why not treat people with kindness and respect…yes even if we disagree with them.
Well after 80plus comments I’ve finally come to the end and all I can do is blink, rub my eyes, and shake my head. Having said that…
I’ve spent time in IRC chat rooms, on BDSM dating sites, as well groups such as FetLife. I have seen and even been that “bitch”…However! I have to agree with kaya on this one. Constantly complaining and/or whining about the Dominants out there seriously gets you no where. A common respect should always be. Doesn’t mean it has to last( Which I have done. Shown respect, given respect and in the end they showed even with my respect to be well stupid.) But I did however show common manners in the beginning.
I do find that arguing online is retard however. Agree or Disagree that is a choice. Kaya never once said, my thoughts are law and all should agree. She writes what she feels. Going on and on arguing with her is rather pointless. Everyone has a right to feel one way or the other.
I just recently joined that site. I have purposely avoided reading those particular comments, trying not to be drawn in. Every Dom I have ever met finds little ways to test you at the beginning.
I am by no means a doormat. I am “pet” to my Master. He says I remind him of a falcon. Very loving, very caring, but can also be dangerous. However, I am submissive. It shows in everything I do. No matter where I go, I tend to bring on the dominance in others, even in other submissives. I just generally treat everyone as if they were more dominant than me, and go from there. If they aren’t, it soon shows up.
meh, I have totally forgotten where I was going with my comment. Other than to say I agree with you.
Wow, I missed a lot of drama on this post while I was away!
I totally get what you’re saying on this, though. If you’re presenting yourself as X, then you should really be demonstrating some characteristics of X or everybody is going to think you’re faking. After all, we expect dominants to have aspects of dominance in their conversation and such–and it’s a wierd double standard that submissives doing the same is looked down on.
Obviously, it can be taken too far–I’d have the same disdain for someone who is a doormat as I would for someone who is overbearing to the point of rudeness.
But when you’re feeling out a relationship, I don’t think it would hurt at all to see how the other person responds when you act the way you’d be acting in a formalized relationship.
Hi,
I read your blog fairly regularly.
This entry has been stewing in my brain for a while.
My 2 cents worth is this:
Just because a person is a sub does not magically protect them from the risks associated with bad judgement. Consequently, you should apply the same criteria to finding a dom as you would for any other kind of relationship.
When I label someone as a “wannabe dom”, all it means is that that person doesn’t meet my basic criteria for a Dom. Why would I want to sub for someone I don’t respect, like, or want to spend time with? If someone issues a command in my direction (such as the hackneyed, “kneel bitch”), on the assumption that I’m a sub and will respond to that, then they are acting as if they “wannabe” *my* Dom. It’s not man bashing to recognize (and declare) that a particular male is an unsuitable candidate for me – especially if I’m clear about why I’ve made that determination. Nor is it “un-submissive” to have expectations of behavior.
I’m in a happy Dom/sub relationship – and I don’t regret having determined that he was a sane and intelligent long before I got naked and tied up in his bed!
I don’t think that single femsubs object to dominant behavior – but maybe they differentiate between the kind of dom they are seeking and random strangers that confuse submission with an open invitation to abuse from rude jackasses. Guys who assume subs are free hookers just waiting for them to get their rocks off are not necessarily Dom material. Just because we are subs doesn’t mean that we want to suck off every hygenically-deficient and intellectually-stunted bully that can find a Ds website.
wow, I just replied, and THEN read this reply. Sorry to repeat so much of what you just said…I honestly didn’t read this before replying LOL
No worries
In retrospect it seems like a bit of a rant – but one I stand by.
I’ve been lucky to meet enough Doms who are men of intelligence, integrity, and grace not to be disgusted by those who give the entire scene a bad name.
It just drives me bonkers when people in the life style manage to represent a sub as worthless
The right sub is just as amazing a gift for the Dom as the right Dom is for a sub. Encouraging “wannabes” merely makes it harder to find that precious match.
“I think if I were a dom in search of a submissive, I would probably give a simple order right off the bat too, purely for the purpose of weeding out the man-bashing wannabe posing as a submissive.”
I personally disagree with this. I am submissive, but not EVERYONE’S. There’s a big difference. I find it entirely DISrespectful for a Dom to bark an order to test someone that is not his. To me…that would be a way to weed out the wannabe dom. Why is it that the submissive is the only one that has to prove something?
my two cents