A Danger to Society
That’s the message being sent out by Nine Deuce in her various posts about bdsm.
All of us who engage in the nefarious practices of bdsm are a threat to feminism. We’re public enemy numero uno.
Now, she claims to be on a mission of trying to understand bdsm, really wanting to understand why we (we, as in the submissive females and the dominant males) do what we do and how we justify the damage we’re doing to the millions of women who have fought so bloody hard to give us a better life than the one we choose to live.
Having read through her posts and waded into the hundreds upon hundreds of comments (and read her oh-so-articulate replies like “fuck off” and “go fuck yourself” and “stay the fuck off of my blog” and her tendency to delete comments willy-nilly) I’m rather convinced that she’s not, actually, wanting to understand anything. She has an agenda. (But then, don’t we all? I have one, too. To be left alone, free from the ignorance and hatred she vomits into cyberspace on a regular basis.)
Of course, having a blog as ones personal space to bash bdsm is A-OK in my book. I have a blog that glorifies bdsm (sort of and sometimes) so, sure, bash away, and have a good time doing it.
What interests me about her blog is her apparent honest belief that we cult-ish bdsm peeps are a threat to her world. I mean, I suppose we get used to hearing that we’re “sick, twisted, damaged, blah blah blah” – but to hear that by the very nature of expressing our sexuality we’re dangerous to society as a whole? It’s kind of flattering, isn’t it?
Who knew we held so much power? Honestly, my head could begin to swell right now! I am already planning what I’ll do when I take over the world, right after I finish with this very slow, very tedious, very very loooooong process of destroying feminism by bending over for a spanking now and then.
(insert eyerolls at will)
I actually enjoy a good debate, especially a debate about bdsm and it’s practices, as well as its effects, if any, on society. And I truly like delving into the why’s of it all. Why am I like this? Why are you like that? Why is HE like THAT? But the thing that immediately made me dismiss her as a voice worth listening to was her insistence that she *only* hear from/talk about/ talk to the M/f members of bdsm, while simulataneously blaming that group for the nullification of the feminist movement.
Conveniently, that group are the ones who are a product of a damaged society and who are continuing to damage society. Switches, F/m, F/f, male submissives- you are all safe and free from judgement. You all mess up her theory so let’s just exclude you completely. (Isn’t there a name for that, where one excludes data that disproves the theory?)
Let’s say I had a theory that alcoholic men are alcoholics because their fathers were alcoholics. Then let’s say I wrote a blog about it and only asked for input from men who are alcoholics with alcoholic fathers.
I refuse to acknowledge that women can be alcoholics, too.
I refuse to talk with men whose fathers weren’t alcoholics.
Limiting my “research” to alcoholic men with alcoholic fathers is hardly sufficient proof to thus proclaim that all alcoholics are men with alcoholic fathers.
Which is, essentially, what she has done. She thinks that bdsm is a direct result of societal conditioning. That the only reason men are dominant sadists is because society has led them to believe that they can be, and the only reason women are submissive is because society has made us believe we *have* to be.
Male submissives and female dominants <-- that's how you deal with those pesky theory flubber-uppers!
According to her, feminism, and what feminists fought for, wasn't to give women the choice of how to live or how to express their sexuality. Not at ALL. In fact, she downright scoffs at the idea that we should have a choice. The choice we DO have, according to nine deuce's feminist views? Is to do it her way. That's it. The End. Any other choice is an insult to feminsists everywhere.
"Feminism is about freeing women from male oppression" /quote. It is NOT about choices. And by supporting that old male-led society, we're furthering the suppression of women. Therefore, no matter what *else* we do in our lives, we are not feminists, cannot be feminists, are the archenemies of feminists - and should be shot. Or something.
I haven't commented there, and won't, as getting involved in the argument waging there is a complete waste of time. She's not interested in hearing other voices. Which is sad, really, because some of the people over there who ARE trying to enlighten her are making some supremely important and valid points that she simply refuses to acknowledge.
But I'm going to quote some of her, and her followers, words of wisdom on the world of bdsm. A world that they, admittedly, have no knowledge of beyond a couple of websites. A world that they think they know enough of to condemn, judge, belittle, label, and dismiss. (a bit like how I'm feeling about her actually.)
"I’ve never said that anyone has no right to engage in whatever they’re engaged in, unless they’re hurting people. I think the issue at hand is whether what goes on at Kink.com and as a result of what they do hurts people. I think it does."
(and since she’s concluded that we ARE hurting people, she’s decided we have no right to engage in it)
“If someone can honestly sit there and rationalize how fetishizing non-consensual violent sex that follows the dominant patriarchal norms and is entirely rooted in them is a valid “identity” like homosexuality and race and gender, I’m going to assume the right to assume that they’re criminally intellectually challenged with a persecution complex the size of the Sun.”
(Why can’t domination/submission be a valid identity? I didn’t choose to be submissive, I choose to act on it. A gay person doesn’t choose to be gay, they choose to act on it. A straight person doesn’t choose to be straight, they choose to act – oh, ffs. How can she not see that??)
“You don’t get it. It doesn’t matter if individual women think BDSM rules or participate gladly[...]. What matters is that the existence of this kind of shit is BAD FOR ALL WOMEN.”
(Well damn good thing she’s around to decide for all of us women what’s healthy or not healthy! Wouldn’t want to think for myself or anything progressive like that!)
“It’s a moral judgment, not a call for legal action.”
(Coulda fooled me)
“If you want to participate in this discussion, avoid telling feminists what feminism is about.”
(Indeed. As soon as you stop telling bdsm’ers what bdsm is all about.)
“Just because we want something doesn’t make it right. Being aroused by domination is something we’ve been programmed to do since birth. That doesn’t mean we should hurt people or celebrate pain. And you know what? I will shame people that hurt other people, because in my opinion that is part of the social contract (and it isn’t the sex that is shameful).”
(You should be ashamed of yourself for being such a first-rate, class-less, venom-spewing bitch. Was that social programming for you or did you pick that up along the way? You’re awfully good at it.)
“I’m not urging banning anything, I’m not telling anyone to be ashamed, but I am saying that our goal ought to be a world in which women are truly sexually autonomous beings. That means making choices with regard to sex from a set of options that aren’t limited by patriarchal social conditioning.”
(You are telling people to be ashamed. Repeatedly and often, with colorful words. Your goal, as far as I can tell, is not to allow women to be sexually autonomous beings, as evidenced by your agenda to not allow women to choose how to express their sexuality when that choice doesn’t match yours.)
“Men will keep that up until we refuse to allow it. Feminism is women’s movement, not men’s. They’ve got no reason to give up privilege, so we have to make them.”
(Way to lump all men together. Kinda like how you claim men are lumping women into sexually submissive beings and can’t see them for anything else?)
“Sexual repression has generally been an element of patriarchy, especially when it comes to women’s sexuality. [...] and I suppose my goal is to eradicate the warped-ness and the repression and see if we can’t find something more healthy to do.”
(The only thing I see you doing is trying very hard to replace mens supposed sexual repression of women with your own standard of sexual repression of women. How on earth does that equal “healthy” to you? Your goal to eradicate my style of sexuality? Pretty fucking repressive, in my book.)
“I think that this particular choice wouldn’t be made as often if we weren’t told that our sexuality is shameful and that we ought to have to be led into enjoying sex and/or punished for liking it.”
(Then how’s about you stop telling me that my sexuality is shameful. You’re not setting yourself apart from the men who are suppressing women -if they even exist on the scale you imagine them. You are *joining* them.)
“I genuinely believe that if we were to achieve the end of male supremacy, of shaming women for enjoying sex at all, of the expectation of women’s submission to degradation and domination, that these sorts of desires might not exist at all.”
(Really? Really?? I just… wow. Because, totally, as soon as someone tells me it’s not okay to feel this way, it just goes away!)
“What all of you seem to be missing here is that I’ve never given female subs shit for what they’re into.”
(Lies. Bold-faced lie. Not to mention how she very rudely slammed quoted pieces of a couple of female sub’s blogs that she copied and pasted on her site. But she’s not giving them shit for being into it. No. Not at all. Good ol’ sweetness and light ND!)
“People torturing each other shouldn’t be a part of human sexuality. I’m all for women being free of the shame that society tries to attach to their enjoying sex, but this is not a freedom from that, it’s a result of it. If women weren’t ashamed of their sexuality, they probably wouldn’t develop the desire to be dominated (which removes the responsibility for liking sex from them), forced (same deal), or humiliated and hurt (which works as a sort of penance for enjoying sex).”
(*sigh* Why do you get to decide what should, or should not, be a part of anyone’s sexuality as long as they aren’t a)forcing it on YOU, or b)forcing it anyone else?)
“Men who enjoy torturing women or who enjoy seeing women tortured are the enemies of womankind and the enemies of feminism.”
(Well, I guess all you men can stop supporting feminism now. Relax and throw off that mask and reveal yourselves for He-man Woman Hater’s Club members that you are!)
“And it (the shot/words of the woman proclaiming her extreme enjoyment of the scene that just finished) comes last because I can imagine a guy having an orgasm and _then_ being a bit worried about/disgusted with himself for enjoying this stuff (at least at first). That post-orgasm shot of the women smiling is his palate cleanser.”
(Could not *possibly* be the woman’s genuine reaction to something she thoroughly enjoyed, could it? Nah. Can’t be that. Impossible. She’s too stupid to know what she enjoys. I forgot.)
So, being a submissive is an oppressive role that I have been forced into by society, apparently without my knowledge. A role that she and her femi-nazi followers have missed. I haven’t yet found where she explains how she was able to sidestep what thousands of other women like me were too stupid to notice. She is the special snowflake.
Most surprisingly and, in my opinion, most intellectually dishonest, she continues to categorically deny that she’s the one dehumanizing women in the same breath that she says we’re not *able* to make these decisions for ourselves. I genuinely fail to see the difference between a)someone telling me I’ve been conditioned to not have a choice or that b)I am too ignorant to make that choice. Both seem equally demeaning and dehumanizing.
She does not recognize that women have the emotional and mental capacity to decide whether or not they want to be in BDSM relationships, while claiming it’s men and society who are opppressive. Personally, I find a group of women fighting to criminalize the way I’m living my life to be pretty darn oppressive!
In fact, she advises that us sick fucks should “go kill ourselves”. Now isn’t it a good thing we have her on the side of humanity, working for the greater good of society? Where *would* we be without people like her (besides happier and safer, of course)?
~cunt
Tags: rants, women's lib
Uncategorized | kaya | 
Monday February 23rd, 2009 11:06am
I hate people like this. I’m very live and let live in my general life, so I tend to just ignore this, but it makes me sad for the women who do call themselves feminists and don’t believe anything like this drivel, because they end up being lumped together with this line of thinking.
I’m sure she also discounts those of us who grew up in families with dominant mothers, surrounded by other families with dominant working mothers where men really didn’t get much of a say, or if they did, it was secondary. Who grew up going to schools where generally, girls are more successful than boys. Where girls initiate sex more than boys do. That just wouldn’t make sense now, would it? Ugh, I’m going to regret even reading those links.
Also, if she flipped out at kink.com, what would she have done if she had seen some of the seriously sick shit out there?
Kink is pretty tame, good tame, but tame compared to a lot of stuff out there. It’s actually kind of funny that someone can be that overly sensitive.
I’m pretty sure she isn’t ready for anything more extreme than kink.com. As a proud kink.com affiliate myself, I’m amused at her reaction to it. I, personally, love kink.com.
She just blows me away with her ignorance. And she’s smart! You can tell she is. But this.. it’s just plain ignorance.
You have to wonder though- how does she deal with the TS Seduction site? Bound Gods?
Something other than M/f? Oh look, a baby wolf! *points in the opposite direction and runs away*
She doesn’t. I mean, I’m sure she has things to say about them but she mostly just dismisses them as being important/influential on society. Her agenda is the oppression of women through porn, anything not related to that is not up for discussion.
Which is weird. How can you draw honest conclusions when you only allow certain “evidence” to be brought up?
Well, I don’t think there can be an honest conclusion there. That’s the wrong kind of feminism, as far as I am concerned. In fact, it reeks a great deal of the feminazi variety. Only, unlike the Nazis, we will not be getting anything awesome- like recycling, environmental preservation, affordable cars, sustainability programs and awareness, etc, out of the deal. Just the shitty part about eliminating and bashing everyone who doesn’t agree with you. Only, less death.
I did read through a whole big thing, 400+ comments and all, and was really pleased to see at least one person who had been sickened and horrified actually apologizing for judging people, which was nice.
I keep trying to read her posts, and the comments, and try to see things from her point of view. But I just can’t get my head that far up my ass.
One of her biggest problems is that the Kink.com sites (excluding Bound Gods and the T/s domination sites, of course) glorify violence towards women.
Frankly, I LOVE when my master is “violent” towards me, and encourage him to be “violent” as often as possible. If that’s what I’ve been programmed to like since birth, thanks to our patriarchal society, then so be it! ;)
Well, I think it glorifies bdsm. And that seems to be the separation she can’t fathom. Glorifying bdsm is not the same thing as glorifying violence to a woman who doesn’t want it.
*sigh*
She makes me tired. She talks in circles, ignores valid points, she just… frustrates me.
Yep, I’m with you. I agree that there is a separation, but she refuses to see or accept that.
Her ignorance makes my head hurt.
Someone must have taken a dump in her corn flakes.
I’m betting “two girls, one cup” would *really* tick her off..lol
haha i would love to read her post on that video! i can hear it now – “oh those poor, brainwashed, abused women!!” *eye roll*
WOW.
I am in shock.
I know that I’m capable of forming a coherent reply to her…but I’m not sure it’s worth expending the energy to be ignored.
*Shakes head* This is sad. It makes it hard to have faith in the human race, the humans I’m hoping will someday allow me to get married, the humans I’m going to turn my son loose to someday, when there’s shit like that spewed all over.
I figure people more articulate than I, and with a greater well of patience and restraint, have said everything I would have liked to say and then some. And been ignored..lol. So why bother?
At this point, about all I could think to add is “you suck and you’re ugly” anyway. Not exactly conducive to pleading my case.lol
Psh. I’ve been keeping up with her since I heard about this.
And honestly, what she says worries me sometimes. I gave up a man I loved because he couldn’t deal with my need for pain, and sometimes I wonder if that’s how he sees me.
Also, ‘deuce’ is a metaphor for taking a shit in this house. Ergo, one can not take a deuce with socks on, and she is 9 p00ps.
lol. 9 poops. You crack me up. :D
The sad thing is, IF that guy holds that view of you, he should be educated out of it, not have stuff like her volatile rants reinforcing his ignorance.
Well, he’s PRETTY MUCH over it now. I’ve tried educating him, but I think it’s more that he’d rather be disgusted at a personal choice of mine than be mad at me.
And there are still some days where I wonder exactly how sick I’m not.
Even if that is the case, that we’re somehow “sick” – it doesn’t seem to me like we’re on a mission to convert people over to bdsm – to join our “illness”. So I guess I just don’t get why a rational, intelligent adult who has made a personal decision about her own life, even if that choice is distasteful to some, should be ragged on as much as this woman is ragging on about bdsm.
It seems absurdly obvious *to me* that what I do in the privacy of my home and bedroom has zero impact on society as a whole. To think otherwise would indicate delusions of grandeur I think. It makes me wonder, if SHE thinks that her own private and personal relationship decisions have an effect on anyone outside of her intimate relationships and what her delusions must be.
When trying to do research on a topic, it’s also best to not have your pre-formed opinions about it already set in stone. A hypotheses, sure. A conclusion, no.
I am a feminist. I’ve said it before. Just because there are silly women like that out there claiming to also be feminists doesn’t really make us the same. Like submissives really. There are all sorts of varieties and the only thing in common, often, is the word.
I would guess she’s got some deep dark desires herself that she feels guilty about. You see it all the time with the uber religious dudes that spend as much time condemning homosexuality as frequenting their local glory hole.
That kind of rage seems to stem from self hatred. Hence all the distancing language like.. of course it’s normal to feel like that (I do).. we’re programmed to feel like that (Daddy was mean to me).. but it’s not right (I’m a bad person).. and you should just stop it (I wish I didn’t want it).
Why else spend all this time on kinky websites? Why be interested at all? Why not focus that anger and rage on something truly deserving of it, like little girls getting their clitoris cut off with a rusty razor. That’s some truly repugnant shit.
Most vanilla friends that I have, don’t even register bdsm on their radar. They don’t get it, and don’t feel much of anything towards it. Mostly just a.. hmm.. weird. *puzzle*
She focuses on the M/f dynamic because that’s the one she fantasizes about. The one she craves. She sees submissive women as weak.. so if she wants what they have, that means she’s weak, right? How horrifying for her.
That *is* why the cliche “I’m not a doormat” shit is so common. Because of the misconceptions about being a submissive woman in a still somewhat patriarchal society and resolving feminism with that. I think, actually, that it goes so deep that some women in authority dynamics outright reject the word itself. Despite what they might tell you, they DO see submission as weak. They want to be dominant and have someone MORE dominant own them.
Those women and this one aren’t very different really. She identifies certain desires in herself and overcompensates with her vitriol and judgementalism. Maybe one day she’ll be able to accept herself and can be more accepting of others as well.
Just a little armchair psychology.
I think she is a very angry feminist, filled with rage as Devlyn points out.
Devlyn makes a bunch of other terrific points, and I found myself nodding and wishing I had said them all, though I think she (he?) said them better than I could have.
I think that it can be very difficult to reconcile bdsm desires with feminism. It can be very hard to let go of the theory of right and wrong and just go with what feels good.
What my Dominant and I do between the two of us has little or no relation to the way we interact with other men or women or society as a whole, its just what we do.
Politics and philosophy and theory have little or no place in bedrooms.
It seems to me that her bedroom might be a grim, unhappy place.
sin
“What my Dominant and I do between the two of us has little or no relation to the way we interact with other men or women or society as a whole, its just what we do”
Exactly. I can’t comprehend why she thinks otherwise.
I’d pay money to hear her sputter her way out of this view..lol.
Interesting take on it, I have to admit. Makes sense, too. Imma think on it some more.
I’ve been a really angry feminist. By times. And with good reason. There have been very real issues of discrimination in our society based solely on gender. Many of those have been eliminated and it is a good thing. Some remain, and I’ll continue to hold that we ought to fix that.
This person’s rantings do not put her in the angry feminist category. Feminism is about advocating for women and the rights of women in a fair and just society. As near as I can tell from what I’ve read here (and I have no intention of driving up her stats by going to her site), this person isn’t advocating for women and women’s rights — she is banging her own personal drum. That is not and never has been “feminism.”
swan
Hear, Hear!
“If I’m going to give a sexual practice a free pass and the Nine Deuce seal of approval, it’s got to meet three criteria..”
This comment just cracked me up. How lovely of her to offer people her seal of approval on their sexual choices. Seriously, every morning when I wake up I ask “Will Nine Deuce approve??”
I am not an expert on feminism, not by a long mile, but I really can’t grasp the concept she is putting out on her blog. What it seems she is saying, to me, is “women, don’t follow men’s rules anymore…follow mine!”
Stupid uninformed woman.Ugh. Also, I found it *highly* amusing that the best argument she put up to some well spoken males was “your grammar/spelling is bad”…..well, hang them by the balls right now for a misplaced comma, I say!
“women, don’t follow men’s rules anymore…follow mine!”
I agree! And I honestly don’t think she sees that. At all.
I saw the grammar thing. Too funny. ;)
Hi Kaya,
Interesting to hear your views on this latest blog-tastrophy. I’ve been fuming about it for more than a week now. My blog is one of the ones that she quoted from (in a whole separate post! I’m so *special*) and it really made me angry. She expressed all this fake concern for my well-being, but if she was really worried about me she could have e-mailed me directly to make sure I’m okay. Instead, she took one of my posts out of context and ridiculed it with her little friends on her blog. Bad blog etiquette…bad people etiquette, if you ask me.
Anyway, she doesn’t care about submissive women. If she had asked, I would have told her that I am happy and more satisfied in this relationship than any in my life, that pain is just a part of what we do and that there is so much love. I would have told her that I am not abused (and that I, not a stranger on the internet, am the best judge of that). But she didn’t ask or even take the time to listen. She just judged and shamed me, my friends and my relationship.
I’m sorry that so many of us spent time on her blog explaining our lives to people who won’t ever listen. We shouldn’t have to explain to anyone because it is none of their business. We don’t expect them to justify their lives to us. We don’t go on feminist blogs touting our lifestyle. We keep to our little corner of the internet and do not deserve to have our lives judged by others. If they want to think that we are stupid brainwashed women held captive by evil men, so be it. I’ll continue to enjoy every minute of my life despite her opinions.
Best,
Kitten
I am truly sorry that she did that to you. I’m ashamed FOR her – bad people etiquette is exactly it.
You are showing yourself to be a woman of much higher esteem than she will ever be by your graceful acceptance of her shortcomings. You should be proud of yourself (and of your relationship!).
I’m sorry she did that to you too Kitten.
~hugs~
junebug
Sheesh. I had a quick look. It gave me a headache and I had to leave. As a feminist, I always wonder why some people have so many misconceptions about feminists (at least from my point of view). But then there are people like her. It is a big world, or course, and there are many breeds of feminism. We’re not all like that!
Oh I know. She’s a breed on to herself. Though there was one commenter who was even nastier than she is. Go figure.
I was in a relationship with a woman for many years, and knew many lesbians who were into BDSM. I used to go every year to the Michigan Women’s Music Festival, where there was lots of lesbian BDSM in the woods :) But then there were the women who said that lesbian BDSM was still just plain violence against women, even if it was consensual. And that women who practiced bdsm couldn’t possibly be feminist. Gah.
So, like your point of where do submissive men and dominant women fit it to her theory — Where do lesbian bdsm’ers fit in?
lee,
You probably know that this fight between S&M feminists and radical feminists has been going on for at least 30 years, if not more. None of the arguments are new or groundbreaking. There are just new people to shame, is all.
This argument will never be resolved as long as the radfems continue to ignore our experiences and the experiences of the diverse groups of people who do what we do (including lesbian S&Mers, female tops, etc.) in order to continue their crusade. There are several radfems who have admitted that their initial judgments about S&M may be wrong and have dedicated themselves to a fair conversation about these issues, but that will never happen at ND’s blog.
I come to this discussion with an extensive background in women’s studies and a long history with feminism. It was with a great sense of grief that I finally admitted that the movement that once brought me solace and belonging had turned against me. I know that I am not the only one to feel this way, but it is hurtful to be called a colluder. But we must be who we are and cannot be ashamed.
Best,
Kitten
Thanks for your reply, Kitten. It’s true that this has been going on for ages. I think of this and the arguments about porn in general as issues of the 1980′s. Which is why I had so little patience for those tired old arguments over ad ND’s blog — really, haven’t we gotten over this already? As a matter of fact, at the Michigan Festival that I referred to above, nobody really even talks about these issues very much any more. It’s become much more “live and let live” than it used to be.
I don’t know your story, of course, but it’s too bad that you feel that feminism has turned against you. I find feminism to be relevant in a world where women still don’t make as much as men and where girls don’t always get the opportunities that their brothers get. (This is a gross oversimplification of why I’m a feminist, but I’ve commented too much already).
all the best,
lee
lee:
I think the internet may have brought a lot of these things back from the dead, at least to live again online. I never saw radical feminism as a thriving, modern theory until blogging became a part of our lives. Now it seems like the loudest feminist voices on the internet are radical feminists. Whether this is still an issue in academia and other circles…I don’t know. I’ve been out of those areas for a while now.
And even if Mitch Fest is over S&M, it seems that they’re still a bit hung up on trans people (although that has changed in recent years too). In my view, the perspective is all the same, whether it’s about porn, submission or sexual reassignment. It’s telling women that their acts and desires are wrong, that their *feminism* is wrong, and that they must conform or else they’re on the wrong side.
(kaya: Sorry for the lengthy comments. lee: E-mail me if you want to continue to discuss so we don’t take up too much commenting real estate.)
Kitten
Not a problem. The rent is free for you. :)
I gave up trying to read her posts, my brain started hurting too much. It’s “women” like her (and my feminazi teacher in college) who make me cringe whenever I hear the word “feminist” and quite honestly make me embarrased to be a woman.
I’m with you Angel. I’m embarassed for her. I cannot imagine that this is what the great women of our country fought for. She is angry, ignorant and getting more attention than she deserves.
No self respecting man (or woman) would put up with her shit and she’ll probably be a very lonely woman until she figures that out.
junebug
Angel,
Not all feminists are like her. Really. I know plenty of feminists who think that women like her are ridiculous. There are plenty of sex-positive feminists who are into BDSM and who understand submission.
And, please… think twice before throwing around words like “feminazi”.
Just curious since I used feminazi a couple of times myself, do you think she qualifies as a feminazi? What do you think about that word?
Well, my main problem with the term is that I think it really trivializes the experiences of Jews and others who suffered under the Nazi regime.
Second, I think it’s really heavy to call anyone a Nazi. From what little I could stand to read, I don’t think she was doing anything like advocating the genocide of entire races of people.
I just prefer to call people like her an idiot. :)
Oh! And the most important thing…it’s also insulting to me, because I’m a feminist.
I can respect that. I’ll watch my use of it in the future. :)
I’d agree. I am and will always be a feminist, and the term “feminazi” is too often used to put down anyone who believes that there is any reason at all to keep an eye on the rights of women.
I’ll reiterate that, in my view, this person is not a “feminist.” She is an abusive jerk who thinks everyone ought to do things the way she thinks they ought to do it. That view has nothing to do with genuine feminism.
swan
MAYBE YOU SHOULD HIGHLIGHT WHAT IT DOES TO YOUR CHILDREN- KNOWING MOMMY GETS BEAT AND ENJOYS THE DEGRADATION IS HORRIBLE FOR A CHILD TO SEE- AND I LOVE IT WHEN SO CAlled “slaves”can actually say and believe THAT THEIR KIDS know nothing!’!!! the word slave means your barely on a human level -kids know whats going on! especially having a son to see that-and they do! too bad the TWO of you think its ok but it really is not healthy for children i could care less if you enjoy being put down, beatings and wanting to live your life less that a complete functioning human being- ppl can think and live how they want to and i would think they do see love between you guys I’m sure – but my concern would first be with the children then I would worry when i can get excited waiting for my next beating and more pics to show the public -which if authorite ever saw some of those pics your husband would defintely be checked up on even if he does enjoy grining from ear to ear knowing his slave has serviceded him makes an owner proud! oh well–as long as your living the best of your capability then who cares-
Have you ever considered therapy? You’re scarier than Sybill. Lordie be.
It sure sounds like he/she’s got a chip on their shoulder…jeez…maybe they walked in on Mom/Dad doing said things? Or had a bad experience? That’s sad though…
And I meant the person who posted this comment LOL…I left a comment about your post down below teehee.
Lordie Be and Heavens to Mergatroy sweetheart
Take a breath
CRAZY AS A LOON or maybe some BRIAN SALAD SURGERY???
Yeah, your right, I am a nutcase and need some serious therapy, I tried going once but the therapist threw me out-I got a cancelled check back saying LUNATIC scrawled across it.
Actually, I think we all could use therapy-its healthy and its good cause everyone has issues-’cept for you and Scott-cuz yours is purrrrrrrfect……..you know thats a joke.
“Lordy be”? lol I haven’t heard that expression since i saw Minnie Pearl on tv-corny but cute. Your spending too much time in the country girl………
Fuck all the shit I’ve said-my question now is where was Jesus during the missing years?? I was talkin to a friend and somwhow we got to talkin about what happened to Jesus and i said, “ya mean nobody knew where he was”? and she said, “NOBODY” – okkkkkaaaay lol
so here goes: JESUS_THE MISSING YEARS
He packed his bags and headed out
to find out what he world was all about
He found stores so he started to shop
but he had no money so he got in trouble with a cop
Jesus was a good guy
he didn’t need this shit
he went fishing one day and a fishermen asked him “Whar are you going to be when you grow up?”
He answered “God”
He went to heaven very quick
and he wasn’t even sick.
now if anybody wants to copy my brilliant words-they have to pay residuals-:)
All proceeds will go to the Jessica alien babyfund@men in black.gov
as a mother and grandmother i feel compelled to comment on your comment.
Mistress and i live it 24/7 and our children and grandchildren know nothing about what private things go on between us. they know i do all the housework and my wife does all the mechanical and outside stuff. everything else is none of their business. our 9 y/o still believes in santa clause and we dont allow her to watch the news.
switch to decaf~and quick!!!
Oh, for fuck’s sake, if you’re too embarrassed by your opinion to leave a name, why should we listen? This is NOT about children, it’s about choices. Do you fuck your spouse in front of your children in a good wholesome way? I doubt it. I had zero exposure to my parent’s sex life and I still came out a pervert (by your obvious standards).
Get over it. Gays are here, lesbians are here, transsexuals are here, Doms and subs are here….some straight people…I’m looking….looking….sorry…no… no one else here….
I love my girl…I really, seriously do. That fact can’t be overlooked by feminists. How we celebrate our love is none of their fucking business!
And (hopefully not being a self promoter) if they don’t believe I love her…..read my blog: his.quietcontrol.org
Stupid, idiotic, single-minded-fundamentalist, bull crap.
If I beat her because I’m angry at my boss I’m wrong. If I beat her because we’re both getting off on the intensity and excitement of it….then she should shut up.
Did you fuck your spouse in front of your children in a good wholesome way !!
Hiliarious !!
Quote of the day !!
And oh so to the point.
People like this think if its something outside of the missionary position, it’s being done in front of the kids.
Why do people like this feel so threatened by us?
Probably because deep down they know they could be us…or their mate wishes it were so!
To all the “are you fucking your spouce in front of ppl kind of thing what i said had nothing to do with sex! I was basiclly wondering how a bdsm relationship (in the context of the day to day kind of stuff) could affect the other family membersI mean could their be some resentment? if a son is exposed to the male being authoratative or growing up like in a 50′s home what kind of effect could that maybe have on his said family life or in general with woman as he has relationships. by Alexandro Ocelene (aka annonymous)-
I never re read anything i type cause that takes too much energy – but I’ will probably fire the typist-again. So there.
oh man shoots the typist – just be happy!!!!
Wow. That’s one angry bitch.
She should look into meditation. Srsly.
lol. Yes!
I didn’t read others’ comments, so I apologize if I am repeating but…
kink.com is a great company. They try to show how to be kinky safely. They have a whole site dedicated to teaching people both what goes on behind the porn as well as many documentaries on how to do things safely. Aside from that, kink.com is not a purely Mf company. They have sites that feature Mf, Fm, Ff, and I believe even Mm. It is ridiculous to say that kink.com it hurting anyone. kink.com has played a large part in my being okay with who am, and what I enjoy, I would be so fucked up and depressed without them.
I vividly recall striping and tying up my barbie dolls when I was younger. I watched “Days of Our Lives” with my grandma, during a period of time when the main ‘evil villain’ had the ‘good girl’ kidnapped and locked in a cage in an underground space. I remember being excited by it, even before I knew what the implications of that were. It has nothing to do with kink.com, and it certainly wasn’t something I chose.
Men can be feminists too. Do the people writing the blog know that? Do they know that by saying what feminism is or is not, they themselves are defeating the purpose?
Sorry for the ranting comment, I just needed to stick up for kink.com.
-Lydiab6
She has numerous comments about what feminism is and is not, what it should be and how wrong people are for thinking it’s something different, as well as, telling people who think they are feminists how they cannot be based on their choices.
BDSM is not a feminist choice. The End (to her).
She also, on several occasions, advises men to stay out of feminism. to paraphrase one comment I remember, “It’s(feminism) not for you(men), it’s for women and women don’t need men to tell them how to do it. We can handle it.”
But I agree with you about kink.com. I am an avid fan of theirs. :)
Heh. My Dom used to tie up his stuffed animals :)
AND, he’s also a feminist.
One of the models at kink.com is this absolutely GORGEOUS woman named Madison Young. She is a bdsm model, and is also the owner of a feminist art gallery. She got the money to open it from modeling at kink.com. I read an interview with her once that was called “How Many Anal Scenes Does it Take to Open a Feminist Art Gallery”
I agree, kink.com is a good company. In addition to what kaya said above, they also treat their employees and models really well in terms of pay and benefits.
OMG…you totally reminded me that when I was like 10, I got sucked into General Hospital for EXACTLY the same reason!!! Sadly, there was no cage involved, but there was definitely “kidnapped woman in distress” stuff. Lol, I’d totally forgotten about that.
One of the things that seriously amuses me about this is that my Owner has frequently laughed about the situation he’s in – he absolutely sees himself as a feminist (with good reason) and yet he’s in a D/s relationship – with him on top. Oh, but of course the two are mutually exclusive.
I was seriously outraged at first. For about 2 minutes. Then the laughing started. ‘Cause really, what the hell else are you gonna do?
Feh, let her preach to her choir. I’m going to go kneel in front of my Master, beg him to tie me up, beat the snot out of me, then fuck me just like the patriarchy would approve. That is, if the patriarchy approved of people getting tied up and having the snot beat out of them.
I’m a feminist, and I believe in making the choices I want to make. I believe that should be allowed for all women. If I want to make one final choice in never making choices unless my Master and I part ways, then so be it. Just because i’m “doin it rong” (according to her) doesn’t mean she’s right. Sex with consent is sex. Sex without consent is rape. BDSM with consent is BDSM. BDSM without consent is abuse. The end.
I asked Daddy how he felt about oppressing me. He said, “I’m entirely in favor of it.” Lol.. I love that man.
the sheer amount of abject blindness/stupidity that she demonstrates is exactly what is wrong this country. the entire “I am right because I think your wrong and my friend backs me up So I must speak for everybody” smacks of playground politics and bullshit self-righteousness.
I am so sick of this, the “why can’t we just all get along” sentiment could never be truer. a little understanding and caring of our fellow man could go a long way.
ps… ROCK ON KAYA!!! i can’t tell you how much i appreciate your well formed and highly intelligent rebuttals. Your M is a lucky lucky guy.
Take the links out of your post and refer to her only as a “feminist blogger”. Because even though are criticizing her opinion, the mere act of directing readers gives her exactly what she wants–attention. By gicing her attention, we are legitimizing her as a sane person person worth listening to (even if we don’t agree with her) instead of dismissing her claims as outright loony. And worse, she’s raking in the advertising dollars for it.
I’d object to calling her “a feminist blogger.” In my view, and I’ve been a (literal) card-carrying feminist for a very long time, she’s no more feminist than my houseplants. She’s a somewhat articulate nut-job with an axe to grind. Period.
swan
Well, I really thought the links were needed to put it all into context. I doubt my little ol’ blog is sending too much traffic her way anyway..lol.
I did consider that I didn’t wish to be associated to her with any sort of link, but at the same time, without the links so people could see for themselves, my post didn’t have any weight, you know?
Oh WOW.
I’m a feminist.
AND a submissive.
But according to her, that’s not possible.
Know what I think?
(Besides telling her to get a life)
She doesn’t get laid very much. I’d be bitter too.
-snickers-
That’s mean. I was just kidding. But seriously, I think it’s ridiculous for her to be judging the women of the BDSM world…I agree with you. I didn’t choose to be a submissive, I acted on it. If I’m happy and doing what I want, and that is to serve my Daddy…then doesn’t that, by definition, make me a feminist? I’m not being held back, for I CHOOSE to serve. I wasn’t forced to. It takes a strong mind and heart to serve someone else. I am still me…I still believe women should be strong and self-sufficient if they so choose, but that’s just it…this IS about choice. It is up to every woman what she wants to do with her life, and that’s what we have fought for. We can vote, hold office, have a job, or hell…stay home and have kids. It doesn’t “set us back” or defeat all our ancestors have worked so hard to provide us. This woman needs to take a chill pill and back off of the BDSM community…there are more “feminists” than she’d know what to do with here.
According to her, if the choice you’ve made is anti-feminist (and choosing to remain submissive to a man is, by her definition, anti-feminist) then you are an enemy to feminism.
She truly does not see it as *having* a choice, unless that choice aligns with what she considers a feminist choice.
Somewhere in the comments, another person said something like, in that train of thought, then choosing to cook dinner is anti-feminist as well, and she explained that women do have to make (shoot, forgot the word she used) rational (maybe?) decisions that can appear anti-feminist, but bdsm is blatant anti-feminism.
Or something like that. Hell if I can figure it out.
Bah. She’s one fucked up cookie.
Just from the standpoint of formal logic, I’d say that none of what I can make of her arguments hold any water. She posits what is a “circular argument” — ‘BDSM is bad, evil, and just wrong. BDSM is a direct product of a repressive male culture. It demeans and dehumanizes women. Some women say that they like it and choose it, but they are products of the repressive male culture, and cannot legitimately choose. Some men like it and choose it, but they ARE the repressive male culture and cannot be allowed to choose. BDSM is bad, evil, and just wrong…’ Repeat until your head spins. This will not take you anywhere, but it is a good way to use up some time and excess energy.
swan
Yes, that is exactly what she does. Circular logic. Reading through the comments at her site, you can feel your head spinning. You have her pegged just right.
I was asked by a reader here what I thought of her posts a week or two ago. I spent a fair amount of time reading through some of her past posts in my spare time, skimming through the comments. I didn’t want to ‘knee-jerk’ to one post.
In a way it’s hurtful to hear so many people react so negatively to things that I (we) find positive in our lives. But what I really find appalling, and what makes ME sad about society in general, is the ignorance.
i find it amusing that she went after Kink.com, which runs WhippedAss (F/f), WiredPussy (F/f) and MenInPain (F/m).
If she really wanted to address M/f out-there BDSM, Insex would have been a much better company to address.
Just for the record, having worked with both companies, i have to say i love them both.
Heh. I was thinking of you when she was ranting on about the models of kink.com. She admits that she’s not really talked with them – she’s just happy to condemn y’all anyway. What a treat she is!
Kaya,
Oh! My! God! Where did you did up this one? That was my first reaction, until I remembered something. In one of my classrooms is a book called “Transforming a Rape Culture.” I don’t know why it’s been left behind, but it’s one scary ass book. The premise is that modern culture raises and conditions people to accept rape as normal and they attack organized sports (it promotes violence in general and the idea of being better than others), the military (ibid), mono-theistic religions (patriarcal societies the devalue women). I haven’t found an article about BDSM, but I’m sure there is one (I have a fair amount of time to read while my students test). The scary thing about the biook is that is has a university department stamp on it, meaning it’s the text book for a class of some sort. It sounds like Nine Deuces is cut from the same mold.
This kind of thing has been happening for all of history. If you want to gain power, demonize someone, start a crusade against them and get put in charge. While it’s tempting to blow her off, this is just how persecution can start. The only way to combat such tactics is to vigorously spread the truth as well. How to do that without turning people off is the question, one for which I dlon’t have an answer.
By the way, I love Kink.com. I’ve subscribed to both Sex and Submission and The Training of O in the past, though money is tight these days. I’d like to check out Water Bondage which looks like a blast from the previews I’ve seen. Gads, though, if kink.com offends her, imagine if she found toy’s blog? I can picture her face going red at the indignation of it all.
Dave
You know, I was thinking that earlier. If she ever got access to DL’s toy’s blog she’d have a coronary.
I know. I’d give a hundred bucks for toy to unlock her blog just a little while. ;-)
I wandered over and read for a bit. She and her acolytes aren’t going to deviate one iota from their positions that: 1)Men as a gender are bad and 2)We and we alone know what is good for women. Remember Grandpa’s story about not wrestling with a pig? You get filthy dirty and the pig loves it. Waste of time.
But what if I like to get dirty and play with pigs? :P
Have I told you how much you make my day? Your brand of sarcastic witticism just makes me laugh until I choke.
But holy hell, this woman is twisted. And not in the good way like so many of us. I consider myself a feminist, and a big one at that. But certainly not the femi-nazi insanity that this lady is spewing. ‘Thanks so much for telling me I am living a terrible lifestyle, that I am sick in the head for craving it. Your answers have changed my life.’ Reality check, lady.
I just wanted to drop you a line, saying thank you for brightening my day.
I’ve been following your blog for about a month now(and loving it) and I must comment on this (yay comment virgin). I am probably echoing the 60-some comments before this one, but that has rarely stopped anyone from adding their two cents.
I spoke with a Dom a few weeks ago that phrased it best for me. When telling him about a past abusive relationship he remarked that I may find that D/s empowering (I’m a newbie), taking the things that hurt me before and giving them positive conatations. If that isn’t breaking out of traditional gender roles I’m not to sure what is.
I posed the question to one of my room mates as well- a Women’s Studies major. And she agrees with you; women fought to have choice. Would Deuce condemn a woman that chose to stay home and take care of her children while her husband worked? Actually…she probably would…
I have no doubt that she would find that sort of woman to be the antithesis of feminism. Sad, idn’t it?
[...] Kaya has revealed the secret to womans oppression and the death of feminism. Please follow the link and READ READ READ!!! Pass this on to anyone that you know and love that lives the BDSM or similar lifestyle. Women like the author kaya discusses need (imho) a FULL FRONTAL LOBOTOMY!!!!! [...]
Nine Deuce, saving the world one outrage at a time.
From her about page:
12. I totally write authoritatively about things I don’t know shit about. It’s one of my hobbies.
Think that pretty much sums it up.
I couldn’t continue on with her blog. Very close-minded.It made my head hurt.
And I love Kink.com.
I haven’t even read all of this yet and I’m already seeing red. You can bet I’ll be visiting her blog as soon as I’ve finished reading yours.
I am a feminist. In the 70′s, I was marching on Washington and wherever I could for the equal rights amendment and equality for women. I belonged to the National Organization for Women. I gave countless volunteer hours for feminism.
I fought for choice. I marched to allow generations after me to be allowed the same choices that men had.
CHOICE. As in “I CHOOSE”.
Some of the women I met in the movement, believed that feminism needed to paint men as the enemy. Instead of male supremacy, female supremacy was the target. For some. Not most. MOST of us wanted equality, which in my mind, equals choice.
I want the same choices as men have. I want equality. I want to choose, including if that choice is to be submissive, dominant, celibate, promiscuous, hetero, homo, whatever.
I am a feminist and proud of it. I am submissive and proud of it. Ms. Magazine had an article on spanking years ago, long before I hit the lifestyle. Wish I’d kept it.
Choice. Choice is good.
di
She’s a quack…let it go at that. The number of followers she has is a bit scary though!
And they say WE are the sicko’s. Now god only knows that I’m a big shit stirrer but after reading her supposedly intelligent posts, I had a migraine and need a good lie down and a visit from a psychologist.
I was very tempted to leave a smart ass comment but I figured it really wasn’t worth it. And I felt better after my valium.
Come to think of it, it’s time for my meds again.
bliss
xox
[...] bookmarks tagged articulate A Danger to Society saved by 5 others MasakoX bookmarked on 02/24/09 | [...]
I *am* a feminist… a pretty die hard one at that. But from where I’m sitting liberation means freedom of choice. If you (and I … because I *do* take the submissive role in my own relationships) CHOOSE to submit (or be a stay at home mom, or have long hair and wear only dresses, etc) then I feel you get to make THOSE choices also because of liberation (and feminism). Feminisim was created to ensure that we “weak feable creatures” would be allowed to *have* a *choice*…. and if Feminazi Numero Uno, your mom, your college proffessor, your fully grown adult child, etc doesn’t like your choice they do NOT get to call “antifeminist repression”. If you made the choice (regardless of your reasons) and you’re happy/content/blissfully sighing in post spanking pain with it then THEY can be the ones to bugger off. The whole point of the movement is so that you can choose to be subserviant (if you wish) and they can choose to be “independant” and “self actualized” or whatever it is that they want to be….. k, done ranting now.
I just wrote to NOW to ask their position on a woman’s right to live how she wants. I probably won’t get a response but I’ll post it here if I do.
So, I, a dominant woman, am one of two things to her–I’m just a sick freak she doesn’t want to even talk about or she’s willing to over look that I beat up on men (wink) for the pure enjoyment of it because, well it‘s a man I‘m beating up.
Her type of feminist belief might have worked back in the early days of fighting for women’s rights, but not today. Women have so many freedoms now, so many outlets today to educate themselves about what it is they want to be, how they want to live and most certainly how they want to love. Her arguments are history, they are not the future.
She may believe that what she’s trying to do is to free women from some terrible evil of male control, (I say male control because apparently, like I said, I‘m to freaky or something.) when in fact she’s trying to become the controller by telling them exactly how they should live. That’s so not my idea of feminism.
Unlike her, choice is what I believe in, it’s what I will fight for and it’s how I will always vote.
P.S. If she couldn’t deal with the idea of dominant women, I bet switches really threw a wrench into her thought process.
Dear Kaya,
When I first started reading your blog, I was ignorant, and I wanted to learn what drove someone to this lifestyle of pain and subjugation. I thought this lifestyle was akin to abuse, but you taught me that it is not. In fact, it must be consensual or then it is abuse and abuse will not tolerated and is not acceptable in the bdsm community.
Your lifestyle is a CHOICE. Which is what feminism is supposed to be about, giving women the choice to be whoever they are and do whatever they want without fear of reprisal.
Thank you for allowing me to learn from you.
Best Wishes,
Ally
Needless to say I went to comment on her site and I was not approved. I very calmly approached the subject in a polite and politically direct way. I even borrowed a few of kayas words from her post and used them there.
Its not her that scares me, its the number of folks that agree with her.
I never realized that there were so many narrow minded fools in my life.
“I very calmly approached the subject in a polite and politically direct way.”
Liar. :D
I agree- There are wayyy too many people out there who agreed with her- I was shocked at that. I couldn’t resist leaving a nasty little comment, which I know won’t be approved. It was petty and rude, but damn it felt good to do!
So someone should tell her that her picture says “Sexist”. And, well, feminism is against sexist behaviors on both sides of the scale. :/
[...] is having fun riffing on the folks who think kinky people are a threat to society: We get used to hearing that [...]
Alas kaya…
It seems that you and I and many others by the size of your following have gone and drank the koolaid.
There is no hope for us now… we are doomed….doomed I say to a life of misery and debachary.
forever dismissed as brainless, weak…robbed of our self esteem and yes kaya…victims…victims of our own obsessions.
How will we go on?
One, sad, pathetic, oppressed, day at a time. *heavy sigh*
;)
Oh my GAWD, for crying out LOUD … This is upsetting to me on so very many levels. Here i sit a freshly minted 51 yr old woman. Who, it JUST so happens, owns one of the first ERA bracelets ever sold to support the cause (think early 70′s and POW-type of bracelet). And at the age of 14 it was clear to me we all deserved a CHOICE, which is what the feminist movement was/ is/ and will always be about. Not what this knuckle-dragging, closed-minded (*^*^&) thing says. Good LORD. Surely i didn’t go to all those protests and sit-ins and all that other revolutionary (lol) stuff so that someone could force their definition of feminism on me, or anyone?? WAIT!! That’s right … i didn’t … we didn’t … no one did … it’s about CHOICE, and clearly this (*&^(*(*^)( has chosen to remain ignorant. In my humble opinion, women who make a choice and RESPECT others’ choices, are true feminists, least ways that’s how it was defined to me, lol. ~susanne
this is not mine, but i couldn’t figure out how to transfer pics from the camera phone to here, lol …
http://ny-image2.etsy.com/il_430xN.27375862.jpg
The best advice I ever got was from my father when I was about ten. He told me I had a brain and he expected me to use it. To CHOOSE for myself after waying in all sides of an issue. No tunnel vision, no distorting the facts to make then come out the way I wanted them to. (sound like someone?) He (my dad) is a feminist.
I’m personally not going to bother going over to the blog that upset kaya so much because the opinion of a BULLY is only so much hot air.
I checked out her following and she really doesn’t appear to have all that many. Lots of the same commenters commenting over and over again, though, which makes it seem like a lot. They also sound like they’re all still hung up on college; everything is so cerebral, so idealistic.
Ick. Grow up.
When I read Andrea Dworkin’s “Pornography” I thought…hawt. Seriously, I still have the book. It’s very hot. Poor Andrea’s probably turning in her grave right now at the idea I got turned on. Heh.
As my husband said after reading this woman’s blog, she probably feels all this misogyny permeating our society because people don’t like her. That makes total sense.
Oh, and she sounds fat. ;)
I had a similar experience, Amber. I was doing a research project on violent pornography and the anti-porn ordinance for a women’s studies class when I discovered BDSM sites…and something just clicked! All of these feelings that I had been having for years finally made sense. I was amazed to discover that other people had these feelings too.
I didn’t know it’d turn out then, but radical feminism started me on the path to finding my submissive self. Ten years later, here I am!
Kitten
I was thinking something similar. That kind of hate and prejudice is often a cover-up for explaining away why you aren’t well liked. It’s much more comforting to say “See. People don’t like me cuz I’m a radfem!” than to say “Wow. People hate me for me.”
I wouldn’t even be half as incensed by her views if she weren’t being so unfair and slanted in her ranting. I’ve come up against numerous opinions from feminists about bdsm, and I don’t rant at most of them. But they are honest and fair and have come to a logical conculsion and aren’t afraid of contrary evidence.
She ain’t like that.
(And yeah, she’s prolly fat. *snicker*)
Oh, and she sounds fat.
I was with you right up until this point.
Her weight, regardless of what it is, has zero relevance to her unpleasantness. This was uncalled for.
To make it worse, associating someone that unpleasant with them is an insult to fat people everywhere. :)
Actually I agree with you.
But – since I’m fat too, there was a reason why I said the same thing.
“sounds fat”, when I use it, is in reference to a defense mechanism that overweight people use (in my experience and in my exposure to overweight people. I open myself up to being wrong, really!). She may very well not be fat, she might be an 80lb wonder – but that sort of intense anger, deflecting comments, pithy come-backs- is common in overweight people.
I know I’m not explaining this right. Its like.. how can you get around to insulting them about weight when you can’t get past an argument about the weather? Or something like that.
And she’s so strangely incensed over porn (not just bdsm, porn in general) and she’s so *angry* about it, that I can see that if she IS fat, she’s covering up an insecurity over not being eligible for the porn industry because of her weight by throwing up all these angry walls and raging about porn being “bad for women!”.
LOL. Seriously, that makes way more sense in my head. I realize it isn’t translating well here.
Oh, my bad, I’m sorry, the “you sound fat” thing is an internet insult on some forums I hang out on, it’s meant to be funny-snarky. See, you’re on a forum and someone posts some hand-wringingly emotional LONG-assed rant/vent and the next poster takes all the air out of their tires by simply saying:
“You sound fat”.
You know, haha. You’re supposed to laugh. :D Because how can anyone tell how “fat” anyone is from just reading them?
You can’t, so that makes it snarky-funny.
Well, it does for me. :D
Besides, I’m not exactly thin these days meself. *ahem* *sighs* And my husband is well over 300 pounds (still love EVERY BIT of that man, heh). He’s the one that actually said it about her, although I LMAO recognizing the reference. :)
But Kaya is right too. People who are overweight and unhappy about it (and that’s key; people who are unhappy about their weight) often DO lash out at others over sexual matters or attractiveness or successful people or anything/anyone that might be perceived as being/having “more” than they do. And this woman definitely has a problem with all the above.
She also slammed Diablo Cody; her work, her life and ended by saying she hopes Diablo “dies”. (Yes, she said in her comments that was a “joke” but wow, some joke, eh?) So, let me get this straight; a woman like Diablo actually does well in the overwhelmingly male-oriented world of screenplay writing and this grad student/teacher blogger from wherever who hasn’t done anything except create a lot of strife and anger with her “raaaad feminist” anti-male BS slams Diablo and everything she’s ever done, ending by hoping she croaks, simply because Diablo used to strip and refuses to condemn stripping.
Well fuck her.
We used to sorta-kinda “know” Diablo through her old blog when we were blogging back then, she’s a great writer, we’ve been rooting for her and thrilled she’s done so well and how dare this so-called feminist go off on her like that. She hasn’t even seen her movie but she trashed that too.
Okay, ’nuff, jeez, I’m all wound up again, lol.
I’m a fatherjew, feminist, heterosexual submissive, working-slave plus housewife-mother-cleaning-cooking-taxpayer-nice-to-my neighbours,old and disabled people youknowwhatImean-all this enlightning activities every day on and on- and reading this, I just found out that I’ve GOT THE POWER.
Yeah!
It does me make feel great! Thanks!
I can change the world! Just because I’m a submissive. Wow! What an insight! Think Obama would agree ;)
Anyhow- why bother Kaya?
This is a very old discussion. I remember the eighties- in the Netherlands- where I live- there was a huge discussion going on in the ‘lesbian feministic atmosphere’, because some lesbians came out for their s/m feelings. other not-lesbian feminists came out too. They started a fight with feminists who claimed that you couldn’t have such feelings, that it was a contradiction with being a feminist.- and finished it was- the ‘safe’ woman-café’s/ restaurants, disco’s etc. Actually the womens movement was on it’s end then. But, thanks to the feminist lesbian domina’s- for helping ‘us’ ‘poor’ heterosexual minded feminist submissives. They helped a lot. Because- they were women- they were feminists- and they liked to dominate other women- like man- the ‘enemy’ (for some feminists) I think there must be something wrong with them to consider a man as an enemy- but ok, that’s my humble opinion. The discussion faded away.
Say: one, two, three, four- what are we fighting for?
This woman’s blog is nothing more than an opinion. One opinion. Maybe people agree with her, maybe not. It doesn’t change the world.
And one thing is sure, it wouldn’t change submissive feelings.
(sorry for my horrible english- I’m Dutch- hope you’ll understand me anyway)
Your English is just fine. :)
Why bother? I guess because if no one bothered, she’d never have to explain why she’s so hateful and misinformed. There would never even be the chance that someone reading her, who might otherwise take her word as gospel, gets to hear the opposing side. How can anyone make an informed decision if they are only presented with one side, you know?
Now, my diatribe here was in no way an attempt to educate or plead my case. Not at all. It’s an angry, hateful rant aimed more at her ignorance than at presenting my “side” of things. I have my reasons for choosing those words over something more mature and level-headed though.
It is probably a losing battle and I’m not out to change *her* opinion because I realize it won’t happen. She’s as set in her beliefs as I am in mine. But there are lots of fence-sitters out there. :)
Kitten, you think if we told the radfems over on that blog about Dworkin’s work helping us find our true nature as subs, their heads would explode?
I’d pay to watch! heh :D
As entertaining as that would be, I wouldn’t go over there even if you paid me. I’ve had enough of that nonsense for a lifetime.
Kitten
[...] (Under His Hand) has written an excellent piece here , which has some links at the top which took me to places I wish I hadn’t gone. Yet, I felt [...]
Here’s something to counteract what that crazy nutter is doing at her blog – a feminist defense of extreme porn: http://heresycorner.blogspot.com/2009/02/view-from-bottom.html
Thank you for directing me there!
What nine deuce and other feminist bloggers have to say about BDSM is hate speach and is as dangerous as any other hate speach directed against any other minority.
All any intelectually honest feminist has to do is substitute the word homosexual for Bdsm in any of these rants and this will be clear.
The truth is, like an evangilist attacking dungeons and dragons or pagens the feminists garner attention and support from their community by attacking an allready disenfranchised and vulnerable group.
Nice to see you fighting the good fight over there. Mostly, from what I hear, she’s not allowing the comments to go through. Good on you for saying something she wanted to respond to. :)
Wow, I recently posted this on a thread on TSR/SD about objectification and feminism. Interesting that she is so against the idea as people came up with great links supporting feminism and D/s. I’ll have to check out her arguements.
Ugh. Just checked out her blog. She’s kind of a hater, isn’t she?
Here’s the link to the TSR/SD discussion with cool links supporting feminism and D/s.
There’s no link here?
A good rebuttal Kaya – I think that process of ignoring evidence that doesn’t fit one’s theory is known as ‘confirmation bias’. :-)
Ah. Thank you. :)
Yeah, reading even *more* of her blog, I see that she isn’t into a dialogue at all. She uses her forum to argue her side just because she’s “right,” more logical, “educated” etc… (see the bit about herself–where she introduces herself). Just being arrogant and saying you are right doesn’t make you right. It makes you have opinions. I think she solicits people’s opinions about D/s and BDSM in order to make fun of them–not to have a dialogue.
“I think she solicits people’s opinions about D/s and BDSM in order to make fun of them–not to have a dialogue.”
Exactly.
The problem feminisim, as she espouses it, is that it allows a woman to do anything she wants to do… except be dominated by a man.
I consider myself an equalist. And incidentally, I’m upper class with a post-secondary education, I manage a legal department, I’m well-traveled, well-read, and successful by all of the societally-defined norms… and I like it when my boyfriend bends me over a bench and wallops me with a flogger until my ass is black and blue. It’s fucking grand. Am I deluded, misinformed, burdened by patriarchical norms and societally conditioned? Am I working through some childhood issues with the business end of a whip?
Nope. I just really like how it feels.
Where pot meets kettle
Oh…oops. Here’s the link: http://www.seekdiscipline.com/posts/178426/
Thanks for bringing up this topic!
Well goodness ( wiping a tear of of mirth from my eye), bollocks to her. Thanks -made my day sitting doing data entry down here in Australia . Really appreciate your clarity of thought Kaya, lovin your work.
Anyone else notice that the screen name “92″ feels just like one of the lovely ladies lining up at PD’s dungeon after he stopped thinking of real names for his
modelsbrainwashed victims?Telling people to kill themselves calls for a strong response. Something in the line of “man on dog” santorum (see wikipedia for that one) would seem to be in order.
So, since “santorum” is already taken, what would be the appropriate new technical term to be associated with “92″ or “ND”?
Here is one preliminary idea. Take “ND” as an abbreviation for “New Day”, and associate the meaning “we are going to try some new outragous thing this day”. And make September 2 (“92″) a day for all people in the community to say a hearty “FU” to the feminists and other people trying to bring us down by, yes, trying something new and going even further where they don’t want us.
One might object that in contrast to “santorum” this does not really stick the knife in enough. But then again, that particular person is irrelevant, not a Senator. And I assume that actually causing a backlash strenghening BDSM would be more infuriating to her than having an insult like “kill yourself” associated with her name.
This is “New Day” for me as well. Long time reader, first time comment.
Apparently One-True-Wayism is not limited to the BDSM community.
Well-written response. :)
If nothing else, reading her blog was good for a laugh.
Nina Hartley responded to this: http://ajkenn-rgclub.com/SDChronBlog2dot5/2009/03/01/nina-smacks-down-bdsm-sex-haters/
i had a blast reading all this! reminds me never to say another unkind thing again!!!!!
Suzanne, aka The Night Tripper, aka Alexandro Ocelene-
[...] role in society where it’s related (or not related) to submission in a D/s context. I read kaya’s post from Under His Hand, that while being a rant, was a well thought out discussion on how narrow [...]
[...] posted a blog about a raging feminazi she found on the web. The woman truly believes that women involved in BDSM [...]
What’s this idea that the desire for dominance is something easily identifiable, something we’re always aware of? That hardly seems consistent coming from a proponent of rigourous investigation and analysis of all social phenomena to reveal the hatred and oppression they contain.
I would suggest a mathematical way to approximate someone’s desire for dominance. Consider some thing that you would like to do; take the satisfaction you would feel if you did it. Now subtract the satisfaction you would feel if it was successfully done, but by someone else. The remainder that’s left is your desire for dominance – you desire not just that X and Y happen, but that they happen by your power.
So the idea occurred to me to do an analysis of radical feminism as sadism. As with any analysis pulled out of my arse, there’s no way to show that any particular person or group fits into this analysis in any particular case. Rather, I just want to offer it up as a possibility – an option to bear in mind when trying to understand things. Also, yes, I am male, so me analysing feminism is probably somewhat cringe-worthy. Whatever.
As a newcomer in this field I am constantly on the lookout for insightful content on the subject. Your blog has filled my need to a great extent.
My comments on her site have been deleted as well
[...] For example, this week i have realized that i may very well be a vampire and that i work hard to destroy feminism each day … What do you think readers? Are you remotely interested in seeing what posts [...]
[...] For example, this week i have realized that i may very well be a vampire and that i work hard to destroy feminism each day … What do you think readers? Are you remotely interested in seeing what posts [...]
crapola, there’s my second rant.
:(
/runs off and cries
;P