Pets!
At what point would you, as a pet owner, financially draw the line at testing, treatment, whatever for a cat who is 15 years old and already has a compromised immune system in order to find out what ELSE may be wrong with him? Gah. I’m feeling like a bad mommy over here. He’s losing weight, but is otherwise acting normal. He eats less, but he IS eating. He’s pottying fine. He’s less active but he is 15, for goodness sake. He’s fiv+ which is practically a death sentence anyway- so if he does have heart disease or high blood pressure… realistically, what would you do?
I’ve already dropped over $200 just on blood work and a chest xray to rule out the obvious (and easily treated) possibilities to explain the weight loss. He doesn’t have any infections, no diabetes, no thyroid issues, his heart is a normal size. Now they’re talking heart echo, blood pressure, exploratory surgery (!!) and I’m just like, No. Really? No.
But the guilts! Ow.
Gracie had a flare up of the mange, she’s been on medicine for a bit now. Plus she got a secondary yeast infection over her skin which made her stinky. One of the little kitties I dragged home from my mom’s house last summer is still battling an eye infection that simply will not respond to medicine. The vet said that at some point in the future it might need to be removed. A few weeks back, they knocked him out to do a scraping and culture and can only pinpoint that it’s viral. The other kitty I dragged home had an ear infection that we couldn’t get on top of, but at her last appt, she was finally cleared.
Srsly. In the last couple of months, we’ve easily spent a grand at the vet. They know me by voice on the phone, certainly by sight, and joked that they’re going to just rent me a room. Or dedicate a wing to me, lol. I’m all for doing the best for my pets and I know I’m at my limit in space, money and energy for the amount I can house. I don’t think I’m being neglectful with this cat situation, but maybe I am.
The Man has already put his foot down about it, so it’s pretty much a moot point anyway. I guess I’m just hoping someone out there will assuage my guilt. :/
Uncategorized | kaya | 
February 6, 2013 10:41 am
If he’s 15 and FIV+, I would probably not spend a lot on tests. The question, I guess, is, if any of those tests are positive, what would you do? Would you really do surgery on a 15 year old cat with FIV? What would his chances of survival be, if any of tests were positive, even with treatment? I’d be more likely just to keep him comfortable.
That’s what I keep thinking. Even if we find something, what are we gonna do about it? His prognosis is poor as it is. :/
I was pretty much in this situation a few years ago with my kitty who was 13 at the time and FIV+…the vet actually said testing wouldn’t be worth it since any treatment would be very expensive and probably make him miserable and not add much to his life. I did nothing and he lived another 3+ years and was in good shape until just before the end, which we could argue was old age anyway. He died peacefully in his sleep in his own home. I loved that cat like a child and never regretted my decision. Don’t feel guilty, you’re not cheaping out, you’re making a rational and informed decision, and it’s probably in the kitty’s best interest.
You know, I have a cat that easily weighed 12-15 lbs at about 15 she started dropping weight at an alarming rate.. I blamed it on stress from one of our other kitties.. but then.. she just stopped and has held steady for the last 6 years at about 6 lbs. As to the rest.. As long as he’s eating/voiding and appears happy and normal (for him).. you’re doing right by him.. I think we prolong things to make ourselves feel better.. not them..
Oh, you have my sympathies. Our dog had a heart attack in 2009. They said he would live three months with heart medication, so we decided to keep him alive for his last few months. 3.5 years later, he’s still with us. Then, two years ago, he developed diabetes. So, it’s been years now of 30 pills and two injections a day. Also, he sees a cardiologist a couple times a year. He’s a big dog, so, naturally, he needs twice as much medicine as other dogs, so it costs twice as much. We also can’t travel without boarding him in the animal hospital where he can get his meds ($$).
He’s our boy and we love him, but seriously? We could probably have bought a new car with what we’ve spent. He’s an old boy now. I’ll miss him, but I won’t miss the vet bills. We live a block from the animal hospital — I never thought I’d be so grateful for that.
Yikes. A new car! lol. I want a new car. -nods-
Yeah, I definitely will not miss the bills. M’s already said this is it for animals. As these go, we are not replacing them.
He’s famous at the animal hospital because no dog of his breed has lived this long with his heart condition. There have even been specialists from other states who have come to examine him because his condition is pretty common. I know about being known by everyone who works at the vet, heh.
Really, though, he’s probably breaking records because nobody else would have spent this much on medication. There’s one born every minute o_O
That’s a lot of vet bills you’re looking at. I don’t envy your decision. I’ll be facing it soon enough…
I relate and sympathize, been there, done that, many, too many times.
We were headed into well over $1k worth of tests/vet bills with one older cat fairly recently, he was dropping a lot of weight, it was alarming, but they couldn’t find anything definitively wrong with him, finally I asked the vet if we couldn’t just put him on a wide-spread antibiotic. He said sure and that seemed to knock out the problem since his appetite picked up again and he gained weight back and stopped moping about. The vet said he was actually dying before that, he’d lost so much weight, and we were all relieved he recovered. That was a few years ago and he only had one setback and the vet put him on antibiotics again.
We never did figure out what was wrong but at least he’s healthy. For now, at least.
All you can do is try your best with each pet and follow your instincts. Pets die. People die. When there is something to be done, do it. When there isn’t anything reasonable to do, then there is no use tossing money at it when there isn’t anything they can fix. I know it’s hard.
I feel for you. {{{{Kaya}}}}
-nod nod nod-
It’s the vet who is making me feel guilty, lol. She’s all “but we can try this! and this! and you’re such a good pet owner! why don’t we try this!”
Damn her!
You know, this is a horrible thing to say, but remember that the vet’s job is to make money. Whenever I’m at the vet they want to anaesthetize my cats and clean their teeth. I can brush their teeth myself just fine. They don’t have tooth problems. The vet just wants to scrub ‘em. And how much value, statistically, does cleaning-under-anaesthetic offer a pet’s lifespan and life quality? None. So… no.
Ranting aside… if there’s a possible diagnosis that could be treated within reasonable financial means, and the test for that diagnosis is also reasonably priced, I would go ahead and test for that thing. But I wouldn’t order any test for something that is untreatable, or for which it would not be worthwhile to treat a 15-year-old FIV cat.
Which raises a question. Is there any reason to think he’s losing weight because he’s 15 and FIV? Age and immune disease can take a toll on a body. If he’s having a spike in caloric needs due to a flare-up of FIV symptoms (that you might not even see) or just the mild everyday struggle to function in increasing age and frailty, and if he doesn’t bother to increase his caloric intake to compensate, he’ll lose weight.
Which in turn brings me to a cheap suggestion: can you offer him spiffy, tasty, speshul foods and see if he might eat a bit more? If he stuffs himself a bit and puts on a little weight as a result, then you can safely assume that whatever his problem is, you can at least treat this symptom with noms.
I honestly feel you’ve spent too much lol. Our pets are all rescues too and my opinion is that if it costs more than $500 to fix, well put the pet down. I figure we gave said pet more years than they would have gotten had we left them at the pound and we can just go rescue another pet rather than spend thousands on one.
lol. That’s what Master says, too!
Oh, I don’t agree with this line of reasoning. You can’t put a price limit of health care. If you substitute cats for kids most people would agree its not ethical tolet the kid die because hes taking up a spot for a lot of other kids that need homes.
If the cat was young I’d throw as much money at it as I needed to.
Yes- Waves hands and Nods veraciously- with open arm ssending HUGS.
My sweet kitty was 6 years old and had seizures and 12k later..(YES $12,000) and 2 weeks of every possible test, bone marrow-Xrays, Catscans you name it to save her life- we had to put her down. My family thought I was NUTS- and perhaps I am/was. But she was just a baby at 6 years and my prior cats lived passed 18+ so I was caught up in helping. Once you start – it is very hard to stop especially when they keep telling you something “might” help.
That being said- I also had the finances to do it. Meaning I didn’t have to take away from my daily $$$ to do it. If she was 15 yrs. I doubt I would have done the same- wait-I know I wouldn’t have done the same.
With my Pup- I got Insurance the next day after I put the Kitty down. NO way in hell did I ever want to go through that again. So although it might be too late with chronic issues, my recommendation is the Pet insurance as it will be the difference in me having to make that decision or not with my Pup. It is all heart wrenching and I feel your pain. If I couldn’t afford it or would have to take away from every day expenses then I think that my decision would have been different, well that and of course knowing that nothing would have saved her life anyway. It was a lost cause from Day 1- She had a malignant brain tumor.
I am sorry – I know it is so hard on your heart.
~faithful
You’ve done more than most would do. Had to make that decision with our KiKi cat. The vet finally said something to the effect…Kiki doesn’t understand his pain, he’s old you need to let him go and be at peace. With much heartache I finally did…
It hurts but it is best for the pet.
Joyce
It’s time to say goodbye. He’s had a good life. You gave him that. No guilt needed – you’re doing the only decent thing.
And of course the vet is going to say that – she’s about to lose a client. In my language vet actually translates directly into : expensive doctor.
My Snoopy was 18. He was crying al the time, shitting and puking everywhere. He’d had an extra 10 years because we paid out over £500 when he needed a face reconstruction. The vet still tried to make us feel guilty for asking for him to be put down instead of spending £hundreds to see what was wrong. You have to draw the line somewhere. Sometimes its more cruel keeping them alive. xx
One other thought. If the vet is trying to get you to try loads more tests, tell them you’re happy to if they’re happy not to bill you! See how their attitude changes! Lol xx
This. A vet who firmly believes that X is the likely problem and that X is treatable and should be treated will test for X for free or at cost (if they have to send it out for lab work or something they have to cover)… because then he or she can ask you to pay for the treatment. The vet will feel good about making the call to test.
Kaya’s vet sounds like she is concerned about it being a mystery ailment, so she has this opportunity to order a barrage of tests at some profit, and she can still feel pretty good because there IS always a chance it’s one of those things. But frankly, I don’t think it’s a mystery when an old, FIV cat loses weight!
Crazy Cat lady speaking. You are doing the right thing and you know it. Spending a ton on the vet does not always make the cat happyer. Chances are that whatever it is is nor curable and when its their time its their time…
Oh and pet insurence is a godsend!! I always gain money.
its up to the individual and everyone knows what their limit is both financially and how much they handle personally / emotionally with the treatment plan. one thing I have learned working with Vets (yes I work with them on a regular basis with my job) is they have treatments and can suggest them but a good vet will sense what your capable of and take cues to only do what you will or can do. I have a 18 year old cat with renal issues. She sleeps a lot, gets an UTI about once every few months and so far in the last 6 months I have had a ton of tests done on her. I could give her IV fluids but that is daily and stressful for both of us and expensive if she goes to the vet for it. I have decided to keep her comfortable and if she stops eating or having a quality life I am going to call it a day and have her put down. I had a 20 year old cat that had a tumor in his jaw, he was put to sleep. I figure would I want to be put through all the tests or surgery if I was pushing 100 years of age? heck no – thank goodness for euthanasia wish humans could make that choice as well.
*winces* I have watched family members undergo horrific medical treatments to prolong a painful existence. Chemotherapy, amputation, organ removal, implantation of mechanical devices. I have voted, funded, and protested for the rights of individuals to choose active euthanasia or suicide.
In the case of animals, I do not hesitate to stand firm with these beliefs. If cat-years are about 7 to 1, then your cat is 105 years old. Yes, some indoor cats live to 21 or 25, but then some humans live to 105 or 115. Should we strive to keep everyone alive that long? Is that fair? Is it just???
Kaya, honey, there is nothing wrong with your baby, except that he is old. I have qualms about your vet if s/he is selling you more tests to figure that out.
Ditto, what they said ^. He is old , and seems to be comfortable. Work at keeping him comfortable and give him lots of love. He might surprise you how long he sticks around.
Sometimes the more humane thing, for both people and pets, is to let them go with dignity, and not stuck full of needles and medications that are as bad as the disease. At his age, choose quantity of life, over quality. You ARE a good kitty mommy.
Been lurking a good long time here but throwing in my two cents because we had a cat who at 7 started losing weight for no reason. $$$ to the vet for blood tests and x-rays and so on, periodically. He’s now 15 and in the last 6 months we’ve got him on simple, inexpensive steroids that he’s down to taking 2x a week (so a bottle of 30 at $18 lasts a quarter of a year). He’s stopped losing weight and we’ve never figured out what the illness was. He’s content and healthy. Has your vet considered steroids?
Getting old is an acceptable thing to die of. And that sounds like what’s going on.
There is NO doubt that you love your animals but there is a point at where you have to let go. Granted, most people willing drop loads of money on sick pets, so the vet isn’t that far off in suggesting possible treatments.
But since the kitty is 15, FIV+ and who knows what else, it IS only a matter of time. Give him lovins and let him rest. That’s the best thing you can do for him.
So, the thing is…at the end of life, when we are going peacefully, we are ourselves but slowly eat less, play less, talk less. You can see this as being less about “responsible pet ownership” and more about “humaneness”. Let the baby go on nature’s schedule as he is meant to be. Hugs. Not an easy thing, but a very natural thing that is simply meant to be.
As a nurse, I will say that there are so many times I wish we could just let some of our patients be comfortable and let life take its natural course. Instead, we torture them with tests, treatments, and medications that have side effects. I would just let the cat be, after all it is eating and pottying, and when it seems it is no longer comfortable then do the humane thing and put it to sleep. That is what I hope someone does for me.
Thanks, guys. I feel better. He really has had a good life here. Even though we’ve only had him for a few years and I can’t speak to his life prior to us adopting him, since he’s been here, he’s had it pretty good. I feel good about that, even if I’m not going to drop thousands on prolonging his last few months/years.
I left it at bringing him back in 3 months for a re-weigh to see if he’s holding steady and I’m going to push the noms a bit. But as long as I think he’s comfortable and not suffering, I’m just going to keep doing what we’re doing.
Just jumped onto this post late, but I think you’re making the right call.
I like my cat, but I probably wouldn’t spend much on him if he was 15 and sick. Honestly, as in love with my dogs as I am, and having a vet for a Master, at that age there is not a lot of hope for prolonging life when they are sick. Make him comfortable as you can, and let him go before his life becomes too painful. That is my theory on pets and death, and really what I would want for my own self as well. Our Becky dog was 15 last year, and she was gradually getting more infirm. Still bouncing occasionally, but less and less. Then one day she crashed and we knew it was time, so we drove into the clinic and Master put her to sleep, then we both cried.
PS. Vets always have to push all the options for life. It is what they do. It is in the vet code. But the owner is the one who has to make the decisions. Vets understand this, or at least mine does.
I think at this point just keep him comfy and put him down when he’s not comfortable any more. He probably has something that require surgery any way and your bound to loose him on the table.
To help keep his weight up you can get this paste I think its called nutrical and can be picked up at I think petco and petsmart and it’s not expensive.
I have rats which are considered an exotic so sometimes the bills get rediculus but I can usually tell if something is worth trying or not, at the point when I know there can’t be much done anyway we say goodbye. It’s a hard decision to make thats for sure
Just adding to what people have said- remember that medical intervention is not always the right choice. I
had a cat for whom I had to choose between repeated, long hospitilizations for surgery or putting him down. He was a sweet, sweet cat but got very stressed out about even seeing a stranger. It was one of the hardest choices of my life, but I don’t think the surgeries, pain, and stress would have been worth it for him.
The bottom line is that you know the cat and you know what you can live with. Try to make the best decision you can for your pets and try to forgive yourself if you feel guilty. You will never know exactly how they feel or what might have been, so you can only do your best.
What a lot of comments already! Here in this part of our country taking your cat to a vet would be exceptional. Vets here are government employees and normally deal only with expensive animals like cows, carabaos (water buffaloes), pigs and pure bred dogs. We pay only for necessary medicines. Our two female cats are strays, we drown their litters and let the adults die of whatever illness or old age they have. I doubt if any vet here has ever performed any major operation on one and as for cleaning the teeth of a cat, that would make everyone laugh!
I think you have already spent too much on vet bills, don’t spend any more unless it’s for euthanasia.
“we drown their litters”
:-O
For real?
That’s so sad!
I could be wrong but doing something like that here would get you arrested and charged with animal cruelty.
Possibly it would. But imagine: two female cats, having about ten kittens each per year; then of those 20 kittens, after a year or less 10 would start having 20 kittens per year each – that already makes – what – 200 kittens? plus more from the first pair. Is that better? Even supposing we could feed them all besides ourselves, we would be very unpopular with the neighbours, to say nothing of being driven to distraction ourselves by hordes of cats, increasing exponentially.
If you have a better solution, I’m happy to learn it. I think drowning is better than putting them out to starve, as many do here (that is how we got the cats in the first place.) Don’t you agree?
Drowning kittens is something I of course do not like doing, but sometimes we have to do things we don’t like in order to have reasonable living conditions.
Spaying a cat would be an alternative, if there was a vet here one could trust to do the job; but although there are vets here, I doubt, from my experience of them if any of them has ever performed a serious operation on a cat. I would get some queer looks if I asked one to do it, I think. I did have a male cat castrated, years ago, and the vet who did it had a little crowd of her colleagues around her to watch for they had never seen it done before.
Fortunately one of our cats is not a very good mother and sometimes fails to raise even one out of the usual five in a litter.
When I was a child in England, rural cat litters were often drowned if the farmer felt there were getting too many cats on the farm.